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An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:51 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Fellas….hows’ that talent acquisition going from these deadline deals going on a couple years now???
Please point out the ML help from 2 yrs ago
And now you think the current return is somehow helpful in bettering the ML team??
If this was the intent starting last season, why didn’t they trade Helsley, Fedde, Matz and as many of the other vets when they had a full season of control??? And coming off better seasons……you say rebuild rebuild…..did this just kick in this week??? Please attempt to keep your stories straight
You 2 follow this dysfunctional Cards narrative right into poor season after poor season with less fans in seats……is it working??
And again please forward the detail “rebuild” plan when you admit yourself these Helsley, Matz etc don’t return much….you said this not me

AOF/Ronnie
“They need to trade ML talent so they can rebuild”

AOF/Ronnie
“They can’t get much in return for a 2 month rental……you’re too stupid to understand”

AOF
What I do understand is that I told you years back that Noot wasn’t much of a player and he can’t stay healthy
I guess you’ll need to give me that one
But you do still have that glorious speed swing vid!!

Mo already caught in his weak excuses. keeping 40 man roster space yet org has told goold it will be a quiet off season lol

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:15 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:51 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Fellas….hows’ that talent acquisition going from these deadline deals going on a couple years now???
Please point out the ML help from 2 yrs ago
And now you think the current return is somehow helpful in bettering the ML team??
If this was the intent starting last season, why didn’t they trade Helsley, Fedde, Matz and as many of the other vets when they had a full season of control??? And coming off better seasons……you say rebuild rebuild…..did this just kick in this week??? Please attempt to keep your stories straight
You 2 follow this dysfunctional Cards narrative right into poor season after poor season with less fans in seats……is it working??
And again please forward the detail “rebuild” plan when you admit yourself these Helsley, Matz etc don’t return much….you said this not me

Stop. You haven't read or listened to a single thing John Mozeliak has said.

There is a reason they're moving on with a new front office. Surely... you understand (know) that?

Good grief, man.

AND IT'S NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN F N REBUILD!!!

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:15 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:51 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Fellas….hows’ that talent acquisition going from these deadline deals going on a couple years now???
Please point out the ML help from 2 yrs ago
And now you think the current return is somehow helpful in bettering the ML team??
If this was the intent starting last season, why didn’t they trade Helsley, Fedde, Matz and as many of the other vets when they had a full season of control??? And coming off better seasons……you say rebuild rebuild…..did this just kick in this week??? Please attempt to keep your stories straight
You 2 follow this dysfunctional Cards narrative right into poor season after poor season with less fans in seats……is it working??
And again please forward the detail “rebuild” plan when you admit yourself these Helsley, Matz etc don’t return much….you said this not me

Stop. You haven't read or listened to a single thing John Mozeliak has said.

There is a reason they're moving on with a new front office. Surely... you understand (know) that?

Good grief, man.

AND IT'S NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN F N REBUILD!!!

I don’t listen to MO…..I use my own eyes…
And major takeaway here
Getting minor league filler for ML talent is dumping salary especially when we know its not coming back…..

quiet off season when they need a number 2 pitcher and have the money, its a rebuild or now the pirates, take your pick.

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:30 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:15 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:51 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Fellas….hows’ that talent acquisition going from these deadline deals going on a couple years now???
Please point out the ML help from 2 yrs ago
And now you think the current return is somehow helpful in bettering the ML team??
If this was the intent starting last season, why didn’t they trade Helsley, Fedde, Matz and as many of the other vets when they had a full season of control??? And coming off better seasons……you say rebuild rebuild…..did this just kick in this week??? Please attempt to keep your stories straight
You 2 follow this dysfunctional Cards narrative right into poor season after poor season with less fans in seats……is it working??
And again please forward the detail “rebuild” plan when you admit yourself these Helsley, Matz etc don’t return much….you said this not me

Stop. You haven't read or listened to a single thing John Mozeliak has said.

There is a reason they're moving on with a new front office. Surely... you understand (know) that?

Good grief, man.

AND IT'S NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN F N REBUILD!!!

I don’t listen to MO…..I use my own eyes…
And major takeaway here
Getting minor league filler for ML talent is dumping salary especially when we know its not coming back…..

Your takeaway is wrong of course you complain about trading away major league talent that they weren’t and shouldn’t keep after this season you complain about them trading big league talent away in 2023 as if keeping and signing Flaherty hicks Montgomery Cabrera and Dejong would really be taking the cardinals to the promise land this season lol you are so wrong in this take it’s unbelievable you seriously think this I hope you’re just trolling and aren’t this insane

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:30 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:15 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:51 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Fellas….hows’ that talent acquisition going from these deadline deals going on a couple years now???
Please point out the ML help from 2 yrs ago
And now you think the current return is somehow helpful in bettering the ML team??
If this was the intent starting last season, why didn’t they trade Helsley, Fedde, Matz and as many of the other vets when they had a full season of control??? And coming off better seasons……you say rebuild rebuild…..did this just kick in this week??? Please attempt to keep your stories straight
You 2 follow this dysfunctional Cards narrative right into poor season after poor season with less fans in seats……is it working??
And again please forward the detail “rebuild” plan when you admit yourself these Helsley, Matz etc don’t return much….you said this not me

Stop. You haven't read or listened to a single thing John Mozeliak has said.

There is a reason they're moving on with a new front office. Surely... you understand (know) that?

Good grief, man.

AND IT'S NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN F N REBUILD!!!

I don’t listen to MO…..I use my own eyes…

Right. You're willfully ignorant and pretending that you're not.

Again, that's your fault and no one else's. You're misrepresenting just about every point here, and you admit that it's likely due to you not paying any attention to what the organization is saying or doing.

You're embarrassing yourself.

And major takeaway here
Getting minor league filler for ML talent is dumping salary especially when we know its not coming back…..

Alright, I'll just kindly ask one last time. Please stop characterizing either the Helsley or Matz deals as salary dumps. They were not, and you continuing to claim they are is profoundly stupid. This is constructive feedback.

Willfull ignorance is really annoying.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 18:46 pm Dohm has a great frame...6'4"...solid base.

really good K/9 rating...

Baez and Dohm...good return for a rental

I appreciate your optimism. I don’t share it on this one.

I think Dohm’s elbow is a ticking time bomb.

Baez will need a ton of development work.

Baez has always been quite young for the league he's been in, and he's been above water each stop. He's only 20, there's time to try and iron out the flaws. I understand the K concern. I'll remain optimistic on it until he hits 24yo

You think Dohm's a Hjerpe candidate? Are the writings on the wall that clear? Perhaps.

craviduce wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:41 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 18:46 pm Dohm has a great frame...6'4"...solid base.

really good K/9 rating...

Baez and Dohm...good return for a rental

I appreciate your optimism. I don’t share it on this one.

I think Dohm’s elbow is a ticking time bomb.

Baez will need a ton of development work.

Baez has always been quite young for the league he's been in, and he's been above water each stop. He's only 20, there's time to try and iron out the flaws. I understand the K concern. I'll remain optimistic on it until he hits 24yo

You think Dohm's a Hjerpe candidate? Are the writings on the wall that clear? Perhaps.

I have zero concerns with Baez's strikeouts. I think that was someone else. He clearly demonstrates strong pure bat to ball skills. I'd expect his walk rate to drop as he climbs unless his plate discipline improves.

As for Dohm... he missed a lot of 2024 with a forearm strain. He returned to make a start and lasted 12 pitches. He then only made a few very short appearances before the draft. The Mets have done a good job handling him with kid gloves, I just typically expect the UCL to hit a tipping point when there has already been some history of missed time.

Hopefully he goes the Wainwright route and it takes FOREVER to get to that point!

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:30 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:15 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:51 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Fellas….hows’ that talent acquisition going from these deadline deals going on a couple years now???
Please point out the ML help from 2 yrs ago
And now you think the current return is somehow helpful in bettering the ML team??
If this was the intent starting last season, why didn’t they trade Helsley, Fedde, Matz and as many of the other vets when they had a full season of control??? And coming off better seasons……you say rebuild rebuild…..did this just kick in this week??? Please attempt to keep your stories straight
You 2 follow this dysfunctional Cards narrative right into poor season after poor season with less fans in seats……is it working??
And again please forward the detail “rebuild” plan when you admit yourself these Helsley, Matz etc don’t return much….you said this not me

Stop. You haven't read or listened to a single thing John Mozeliak has said.

There is a reason they're moving on with a new front office. Surely... you understand (know) that?

Good grief, man.

AND IT'S NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN F N REBUILD!!!

I don’t listen to MO…..I use my own eyes…
And major takeaway here
Getting minor league filler for ML talent is dumping salary especially when we know its not coming back…..

Your takeaway is wrong of course you complain about trading away major league talent that they weren’t and shouldn’t keep after this season you complain about them trading big league talent away in 2023 as if keeping and signing Flaherty hicks Montgomery Cabrera and Dejong would really be taking the cardinals to the promise land this season lol you are so wrong in this take it’s unbelievable you seriously think this I hope you’re just trolling and aren’t this insane

Oz give me the Golden outlook where all this goes? All these prospect emerge and fill ML roster? Getting rid of ML talent and receiving back non-ML talent goes nowhere…..and here we are

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:48 am Oz give me the Golden outlook where all this goes? All these prospect emerge and fill ML roster? Getting rid of ML talent and receiving back non-ML talent goes nowhere…..and here we are

How is it that you don't understand how major leaguer for prospect trades work?

The Padres traded James Shields for a 17 year old prospect nearly a decade ago. Did that go nowhere?
The Astros traded Josh Fields for a 19 year old prospect nearly a decade ago. Did that go nowhere?
The Cubs traded Javier Baez for a 19 year old prospect. Has that taken them nowhere?

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:53 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:48 am Oz give me the Golden outlook where all this goes? All these prospect emerge and fill ML roster? Getting rid of ML talent and receiving back non-ML talent goes nowhere…..and here we are

How is it that you don't understand how major leaguer for prospect trades work?

The Padres traded James Shields for a 17 year old prospect nearly a decade ago. Did that go nowhere?
The Astros traded Josh Fields for a 19 year old prospect nearly a decade ago. Did that go nowhere?
The Cubs traded Javier Baez for a 19 year old prospect. Has that taken them nowhere?

Do you have any Cards references since this is the org we’re talking about?

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:44 am

craviduce wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:41 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 22:24 pm

craviduce wrote: ↑30 Jul 2025 18:46 pm Dohm has a great frame...6'4"...solid base.

really good K/9 rating...

Baez and Dohm...good return for a rental

I appreciate your optimism. I don’t share it on this one.

I think Dohm’s elbow is a ticking time bomb.

Baez will need a ton of development work.

Baez has always been quite young for the league he's been in, and he's been above water each stop. He's only 20, there's time to try and iron out the flaws. I understand the K concern. I'll remain optimistic on it until he hits 24yo

You think Dohm's a Hjerpe candidate? Are the writings on the wall that clear? Perhaps.

I have zero concerns with Baez's strikeouts. I think that was someone else. He clearly demonstrates strong pure bat to ball skills. I'd expect his walk rate to drop as he climbs unless his plate discipline improves.

As for Dohm... he missed a lot of 2024 with a forearm strain. He returned to make a start and lasted 12 pitches. He then only made a few very short appearances before the draft. The Mets have done a good job handling him with kid gloves, I just typically expect the UCL to hit a tipping point when there has already been some history of missed time.

Hopefully he goes the Wainwright route and it takes FOREVER to get to that point!

yeah...Wainwright used a lot of Karma on that one.

Good Info as always, AOF.

Thanks!!

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:48 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:37 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:30 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:28 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 10:15 am

Ronnie Dobbs wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:51 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑31 Jul 2025 09:46 am How is it that you seriously don't understand that the Cardinals are trying to add more talent to their development pipeline with the end goal of providing better and more sustainable talent to the major league roster? And that they need to do that if they want to be competitive since their economics have changed and they are moving to a lower payroll model?

F dude. Give it a rest.

Yea, I gotta stop with him. I usually just ignore him because of him either being genuinely stupid or a troll, but I slipped.

Fellas….hows’ that talent acquisition going from these deadline deals going on a couple years now???
Please point out the ML help from 2 yrs ago
And now you think the current return is somehow helpful in bettering the ML team??
If this was the intent starting last season, why didn’t they trade Helsley, Fedde, Matz and as many of the other vets when they had a full season of control??? And coming off better seasons……you say rebuild rebuild…..did this just kick in this week??? Please attempt to keep your stories straight
You 2 follow this dysfunctional Cards narrative right into poor season after poor season with less fans in seats……is it working??
And again please forward the detail “rebuild” plan when you admit yourself these Helsley, Matz etc don’t return much….you said this not me

Stop. You haven't read or listened to a single thing John Mozeliak has said.

There is a reason they're moving on with a new front office. Surely... you understand (know) that?

Good grief, man.

AND IT'S NOT AND NEVER HAS BEEN AN F N REBUILD!!!

I don’t listen to MO…..I use my own eyes…
And major takeaway here
Getting minor league filler for ML talent is dumping salary especially when we know its not coming back…..

Your takeaway is wrong of course you complain about trading away major league talent that they weren’t and shouldn’t keep after this season you complain about them trading big league talent away in 2023 as if keeping and signing Flaherty hicks Montgomery Cabrera and Dejong would really be taking the cardinals to the promise land this season lol you are so wrong in this take it’s unbelievable you seriously think this I hope you’re just trolling and aren’t this insane

Oz give me the Golden outlook where all this goes? All these prospect emerge and fill ML roster? Getting rid of ML talent and receiving back non-ML talent goes nowhere…..and here we are

Montgomery and Stratton were traded for sagggase roby and king king had a 2.85 ERA in 56 games last season and while he had a bit of a down year this season has been serviceable roby was a gamble but with his upside it was certainly worth it and saggasse is on the team but I’m sure you wish the cardinals would have signed Montgomery long term because he’s a “big talent” who should have been kept because that 6.23 ERA would really be helping the cardinals and Stratton and his 7.71 era would be really helpful. Dejong for svanson was a steal for the cardinals or maybe you wish the cardinals would have extended that awesome big league talent. And flaherty and his 6-10 record and 4.51 era would really be leading the cardinals to the World Series cardinals really miss that big league talent. And Jordan hicks man such a big league talent why did they not extend him for all that money he got so they could get the benefits of his 6.27 ERA lol you can’t be this clueless