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ecleme22 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:18 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:10 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:04 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 22:58 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 22:52 pm Being obtuse isn’t a good look.

You’re argument is that Bloom shouldn’t try to help players get better and/or rebuild some value because <insert random fan> thinks players suck and are completely irredeemable.

Your approach is an irresponsible waste of assets and time. It’s senseless and lacks any rational thought.

It’s the same failed strategy mo had with Carlson and your argument to keep players who suck until they have no value is senseless and lacks rational thought. Your “rational thought” isn’t rational thought it’s hope and prayer. Your strategy is keep players that have proven they suck and hope and pray they miraculously get better lol hope and prayer is not a rational strategy I’m sorry to break that to you

The only thing that you’re demonstrating is that you’re not paying attention to or following anything I’m saying.

I’ve been beating the player development drum for years. I’m happy they’re making efforts to course correct with urgency.

You can’t possibly disagree with that.

I’ve been saying it too about the development but some players suck and will suck no matter how good the development is you can’t possibly disagree with that

But in a rebuilding year? Who cares?


So what if NG and JW are on the roster to begin the season.

Why does it matter?

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑27 Oct 2025 11:58 am We're going to see if:
JJ Wetherholt is what we think he is
Victor Scott II can become anything but an offensive liability
Nolan Gorman can play 3B and put the bat on the ball
Jordan Walker can be anything except the biggest mess in the National League
Kyle Leahy can handle a starters load
Ivan Herrera can be a major league catcher.

I know we're rebuilding and I think that is the right thing to do. I don't mind that they ask these questions. The problem comes when they ignore or deny the answers to the questions asked. Some of these questions have been asked and answered.

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:20 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:18 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:10 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:04 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 22:58 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 22:52 pm Being obtuse isn’t a good look.

You’re argument is that Bloom shouldn’t try to help players get better and/or rebuild some value because <insert random fan> thinks players suck and are completely irredeemable.

Your approach is an irresponsible waste of assets and time. It’s senseless and lacks any rational thought.

It’s the same failed strategy mo had with Carlson and your argument to keep players who suck until they have no value is senseless and lacks rational thought. Your “rational thought” isn’t rational thought it’s hope and prayer. Your strategy is keep players that have proven they suck and hope and pray they miraculously get better lol hope and prayer is not a rational strategy I’m sorry to break that to you

The only thing that you’re demonstrating is that you’re not paying attention to or following anything I’m saying.

I’ve been beating the player development drum for years. I’m happy they’re making efforts to course correct with urgency.

You can’t possibly disagree with that.

I’ve been saying it too about the development but some players suck and will suck no matter how good the development is you can’t possibly disagree with that

But in a rebuilding year? Who cares?


So what if NG and JW are on the roster to begin the season.

Why does it matter?

What purpose is it to have them on the team just to have them on the team and watch them suck? You like seeing the same players suck year after year cool for you but no reason why I should want to watch the same terrible players suck year after year

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 06:11 am Honest questions:

If we get rid of Gorman by trade, or even just release him, who are we putting on the roster to take his place? Blaze Jordan? Jose Fermin?

If we get rid of Walker by trade, or even just release him, who are we putting on the roster to take his place? Matt Koperniak?

Would this make the Cardinals better?

And don't tell me they will go out and sign somebody- that is more far-fetched than saying these guys might be good.

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:31 am

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:20 pm

ecleme22 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:18 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:10 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 23:04 pm

Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 22:58 pm

An Old Friend wrote: ↑28 Oct 2025 22:52 pm Being obtuse isn’t a good look.

You’re argument is that Bloom shouldn’t try to help players get better and/or rebuild some value because <insert random fan> thinks players suck and are completely irredeemable.

Your approach is an irresponsible waste of assets and time. It’s senseless and lacks any rational thought.

It’s the same failed strategy mo had with Carlson and your argument to keep players who suck until they have no value is senseless and lacks rational thought. Your “rational thought” isn’t rational thought it’s hope and prayer. Your strategy is keep players that have proven they suck and hope and pray they miraculously get better lol hope and prayer is not a rational strategy I’m sorry to break that to you

The only thing that you’re demonstrating is that you’re not paying attention to or following anything I’m saying.

I’ve been beating the player development drum for years. I’m happy they’re making efforts to course correct with urgency.

You can’t possibly disagree with that.

I’ve been saying it too about the development but some players suck and will suck no matter how good the development is you can’t possibly disagree with that

But in a rebuilding year? Who cares?


So what if NG and JW are on the roster to begin the season.

Why does it matter?

What purpose is it to have them on the team just to have them on the team and watch them suck? You like seeing the same players suck year after year cool for you but no reason why I should want to watch the same terrible players suck year after year

What are they going to do to fix Gorman and Walker that hasn’t already been tried?
AOF….”I don’t know”

How many years do you give a player who is REGRESSING
AOF….”Bloom and his team have implemented a great PD and Tech system”

Why should Gorman and Walker be starting ANOTHER year?
AOF….”This team isn’t winning so why does it matter if they play terrible players”

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am
The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

AZ_Cardsfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:51 am This has to be the funniest thread of all time. People losing their minds over trying to fix a 25 year old and 23 year old on a rebuilding team worrying they will suck again.

I will laugh my butt off if come September of 2026 either of them becomes a bonafide hitter. Lot of red faces.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:57 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am
The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

Yeah, I don't know what happened with Gorman at the end of the year. I have a feeling he was trying to play through something because he fell off a cliff... he hit .136 with a .394 OPS and 45 Ks in just 95 PA from that point (24 games).

From June 1st through August 26th, in 201 PA, he slashed .249/.353/.491 - .845 OPS - with 12 HR (55 games).

In the 21 games after he came off the IL from a back injury (Aug 1st - 26th), he slashed .254/.383/.478 - .860 OPS - with 4 HR in 81 PA

I think he tweaked something and played through it. It's an insane drop off without explanation.

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 09:26 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:57 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am
The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

Yeah, I don't know what happened with Gorman at the end of the year. I have a feeling he was trying to play through something because he fell off a cliff... he hit .136 with a .394 OPS and 45 Ks in just 95 PA from that point (24 games).

From June 1st through August 26th, in 201 PA, he slashed .249/.353/.491 - .845 OPS - with 12 HR (55 games).

In the 21 games after he came off the IL from a back injury (Aug 1st - 26th), he slashed .254/.383/.478 - .860 OPS - with 4 HR in 81 PA

I think he tweaked something and played through it. It's an insane drop off without explanation.

Perhaps Gorman….Noot…..even Walker are who they are…..they are what we’ve seen for years…..
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to see this.
Show me a Cards prospect in the last 7-8 yrs who was perennially bad and then the light went off and become a productive player??? Because this is what you and others here hope for without even one example.

Donny could hit
Burly could hit

TO
PDJ
Carlson
Bader never turned some corner other than a few stints of getting HOT and right back to same ole same ole.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 10:29 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 09:26 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:57 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am
The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

Yeah, I don't know what happened with Gorman at the end of the year. I have a feeling he was trying to play through something because he fell off a cliff... he hit .136 with a .394 OPS and 45 Ks in just 95 PA from that point (24 games).

From June 1st through August 26th, in 201 PA, he slashed .249/.353/.491 - .845 OPS - with 12 HR (55 games).

In the 21 games after he came off the IL from a back injury (Aug 1st - 26th), he slashed .254/.383/.478 - .860 OPS - with 4 HR in 81 PA

I think he tweaked something and played through it. It's an insane drop off without explanation.

Perhaps Gorman….Noot…..even Walker are who they are…..they are what we’ve seen for years…..
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to see this.
Show me a Cards prospect in the last 7-8 yrs who was perennially bad and then the light went off and become a productive player??? Because this is what you and others here hope for without even one example.

DUDE. It hasn't happened because their player development system was broken. They haven't developed a true core middle of the lineup hitter in a decade, at least.

Donny could hit
Burly could hit

TO
PDJ
Carlson
Bader never turned some corner other than a few stints of getting HOT and right back to same ole same ole.

Right. Because their development system... in totality... for pitchers and hitters... was completely broken and obsolete.

None of that matters. It's why there is a new regime and model.

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 10:49 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 10:29 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 09:26 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:57 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am
The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

Yeah, I don't know what happened with Gorman at the end of the year. I have a feeling he was trying to play through something because he fell off a cliff... he hit .136 with a .394 OPS and 45 Ks in just 95 PA from that point (24 games).

From June 1st through August 26th, in 201 PA, he slashed .249/.353/.491 - .845 OPS - with 12 HR (55 games).

In the 21 games after he came off the IL from a back injury (Aug 1st - 26th), he slashed .254/.383/.478 - .860 OPS - with 4 HR in 81 PA

I think he tweaked something and played through it. It's an insane drop off without explanation.

Perhaps Gorman….Noot…..even Walker are who they are…..they are what we’ve seen for years…..
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to see this.
Show me a Cards prospect in the last 7-8 yrs who was perennially bad and then the light went off and become a productive player??? Because this is what you and others here hope for without even one example.

DUDE. It hasn't happened because their player development system was broken. They haven't developed a true core middle of the lineup hitter in a decade, at least.

Donny could hit
Burly could hit

TO
PDJ
Carlson
Bader never turned some corner other than a few stints of getting HOT and right back to same ole same ole.

Right. Because their development system... in totality... for pitchers and hitters... was completely broken and obsolete.

None of that matters. It's why there is a new regime and model.

I just wrote that Donny, Burly, AND HERRERA CAN HIT…….I guess they managed to get through the PD system without sucking in the ML lineup for 3-4yr
What are you and Bloom planning on doing??? Throwing Gorman and Walker back to single A and hope they forget all their bad habits and be completely different hitters rinsing through the new BLOOM system?
Again this about Gorman and Walker……not the NEW BLOOM SYSTEM.

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 11:41 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 10:49 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 10:29 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 09:26 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:57 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am
The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

Yeah, I don't know what happened with Gorman at the end of the year. I have a feeling he was trying to play through something because he fell off a cliff... he hit .136 with a .394 OPS and 45 Ks in just 95 PA from that point (24 games).

From June 1st through August 26th, in 201 PA, he slashed .249/.353/.491 - .845 OPS - with 12 HR (55 games).

In the 21 games after he came off the IL from a back injury (Aug 1st - 26th), he slashed .254/.383/.478 - .860 OPS - with 4 HR in 81 PA

I think he tweaked something and played through it. It's an insane drop off without explanation.

Perhaps Gorman….Noot…..even Walker are who they are…..they are what we’ve seen for years…..
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to see this.
Show me a Cards prospect in the last 7-8 yrs who was perennially bad and then the light went off and become a productive player??? Because this is what you and others here hope for without even one example.

DUDE. It hasn't happened because their player development system was broken. They haven't developed a true core middle of the lineup hitter in a decade, at least.

Donny could hit
Burly could hit

TO
PDJ
Carlson
Bader never turned some corner other than a few stints of getting HOT and right back to same ole same ole.

Right. Because their development system... in totality... for pitchers and hitters... was completely broken and obsolete.

None of that matters. It's why there is a new regime and model.

I just wrote that Donny, Burly, AND HERRERA CAN HIT…….I guess they managed to get through the PD system without sucking in the ML lineup for 3-4yr
What are you and Bloom planning on doing??? Throwing Gorman and Walker back to single A and hope they forget all their bad habits and be completely different hitters rinsing through the new BLOOM system?
Again this about Gorman and Walker……not the NEW BLOOM SYSTEM.

What am I and Chaim Bloom planning on doing? Such a weird question.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do - I'm going to stop with this brick wall conversation with you.

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 06:11 am Honest questions:

If we get rid of Gorman by trade, or even just release him, who are we putting on the roster to take his place? Blaze Jordan? Jose Fermin?

If we get rid of Walker by trade, or even just release him, who are we putting on the roster to take his place? Matt Koperniak?

Would this make the Cardinals better?

And don't tell me they will go out and sign somebody- that is more far-fetched than saying these guys might be good.

The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

Talkin' Baseball wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 11:45 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 11:41 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 10:49 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 10:29 am

Goldfan wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 09:26 am

An Old Friend wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:57 am

ecleme22 wrote: ↑29 Oct 2025 08:38 am
The funny thing is, even if you keep Gorman and Walker, those players are STILL in the organization.

Ozziefan is damaged by the way Mo ran the organization. Which pretty much meant if you made the OD roster, you're likely to be a part of the MLB roster all year—or at least be "got to get him going!" project. Look at Carp in 2021 or Crawford in 2024.

I imagine if both are bad next year, they will quickly be Carlson-ed. But if both are on the team on OD, I trust Bloom's logic for it.

Also, Gorman had a .755 OPS last year as late as 8/26, and his BB rate was probably over 13% then too. Gorman had a really good BB rate last year. A good BB rate + power + cost controlled shouldn't just "be released" for a rebuilding team. Even if it would make Ozziefan happy.

Yeah, I don't know what happened with Gorman at the end of the year. I have a feeling he was trying to play through something because he fell off a cliff... he hit .136 with a .394 OPS and 45 Ks in just 95 PA from that point (24 games).

From June 1st through August 26th, in 201 PA, he slashed .249/.353/.491 - .845 OPS - with 12 HR (55 games).

In the 21 games after he came off the IL from a back injury (Aug 1st - 26th), he slashed .254/.383/.478 - .860 OPS - with 4 HR in 81 PA

I think he tweaked something and played through it. It's an insane drop off without explanation.

Perhaps Gorman….Noot…..even Walker are who they are…..they are what we’ve seen for years…..
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to see this.
Show me a Cards prospect in the last 7-8 yrs who was perennially bad and then the light went off and become a productive player??? Because this is what you and others here hope for without even one example.

DUDE. It hasn't happened because their player development system was broken. They haven't developed a true core middle of the lineup hitter in a decade, at least.

Donny could hit
Burly could hit

TO
PDJ
Carlson
Bader never turned some corner other than a few stints of getting HOT and right back to same ole same ole.

Right. Because their development system... in totality... for pitchers and hitters... was completely broken and obsolete.

None of that matters. It's why there is a new regime and model.

I just wrote that Donny, Burly, AND HERRERA CAN HIT…….I guess they managed to get through the PD system without sucking in the ML lineup for 3-4yr
What are you and Bloom planning on doing??? Throwing Gorman and Walker back to single A and hope they forget all their bad habits and be completely different hitters rinsing through the new BLOOM system?
Again this about Gorman and Walker……not the NEW BLOOM SYSTEM.

What am I and Chaim Bloom planning on doing? Such a weird question.

I'll tell you what I'm going to do - I'm going to stop with this brick wall conversation with you.

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a winner!