How long until there is some serious competition in RF?

[Shady]

It really wouldn't be a huge surprise if Saggese would have better offensive stats, overall, than Walker given the same amount of ABs. However, Saggese would probably be better suited for LF. Church's arm would play better in RF.

[11WSChamps]

If he hits, Church has an outstanding arm for the position. And Baez is "waiting in the wings". It's time for Walker to make some strides.

Walker's leash is no longer than July 1.
He has either shown significant progress by that point, or his window in STL is closed.

Melville, so if Walker continues to struggle going into July. What wou;d you do regarding the RF situaion? There don't appear to be many options.

I would do what I already would have done: trade for one.
Failing to do so was one of Bloom's 3 big mistakes so far (he has done several things well).

And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him.

I said that back in December and was proven to be right.

Partially right.
Bloom had plenty of expendable pieces to swing a trade for a young, cost controlled RH outfielder.
But his goal was to add some pitchers and some long-shot lottery position player pieces who are nowhere near being MLB ready and likely never will be.
Despite his rather disingenuous and utterly unserious feigned interest in adding a RH bat, you are correct that he clearly never intended any such thing.
But not for the reason you cited.
Rather, he intends to give Walker one more look - but is really just buying time to see if Baez or Herrera can "next man up" in the RH corner outfield hunt if and when JW fails again.

Uh I was talking about LF.

So my reasoning is sound.

Walker was always going to be given more runway.

Same answer.
Your statement "And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him" is just half correct.
Correct in that Bloom was never serious about acquiring an outfielder (even though he feigned otherwise purely for propaganda reasons); incorrect in that the Cardinals very, very easily could have acquired one and indisputably had abundant resources through which to do so.
Bottom line: Bloom wanted to acquire pitchers and long-term long shots - with zero interest in acquiring a quality starting outfielder for 2026.
That is the reality, as proven by Bloom's behaviors.

Which was the right move my bloom. There is no needle moving OFer available for what the cardinals were offering. Trading for a league average OFer makes as much sense as trading a 20 for two 10s. Maybe it helps with cash tips but there is no long term value to be gained, and long term is the only term to concern yourself with. Now, if he had traded for more prospect position players, then fine.

Who said anything about a "league average OFer"?

Melville stated early on the team could actually be better this season if it acquired such an Ofer. He'll of course deny it and play some word games but that's the gist of it.

How was the team going to be better offensively without such a player especially with Contreras already gone and Donovan on the block?

I than said as I did in the thread Bloom was never going to make such a deal.

[ClassicO]

Ultimately he did not trade for one so what I said cant be discounted.

What can't be said is he had the prospects willing to give up to get one.

He doesn't because he's not willing to trade a Wetherholt or a Doyle.

Otherwise who would qualify to bring back such an OFer?

That’s the key question.
This nonsense from Melville and others that, instead of pitching prospects, they could have acquired a “ young, cost controlled RH outfielder.” But who is that?

Dumb Mel previously said “ Nootbaar, Walker, Hence, Saggese, Hence and Davis all have value in differing ways.
There is plenty of value there the secure a quality 2-year starter and a high ceiling outfielder also with 2-3 years of control remaining.”
Hahaha - he makes up nonsense and doesn’t actually provide anyone who they could get in reality!

Of course, he’s the same guy who swore Dylan Carlson would be a long-time star - far better than Bader or O’Neill. Well,guess who has had the worst career of those three?!

[Cardinals1964]

I believe we're seeing the fact that Walker has dibbs until he proves he can't handle it. Now, the case may be made that he's already shown that, however, I believe the organization may be giving him one last legitimate shot before they call it a day on him. If I'm correct, it may be a while.

Again, just my guess. Your mileage may vary.

Agree
He’ll be the regular until at least the deadline.
More likely he’ll be here the entire season!

Agreed.

[Melville]

If he hits, Church has an outstanding arm for the position. And Baez is "waiting in the wings". It's time for Walker to make some strides.

Walker's leash is no longer than July 1.
He has either shown significant progress by that point, or his window in STL is closed.

Melville, so if Walker continues to struggle going into July. What wou;d you do regarding the RF situaion? There don't appear to be many options.

I would do what I already would have done: trade for one.
Failing to do so was one of Bloom's 3 big mistakes so far (he has done several things well).

And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him.

I said that back in December and was proven to be right.

Partially right.
Bloom had plenty of expendable pieces to swing a trade for a young, cost controlled RH outfielder.
But his goal was to add some pitchers and some long-shot lottery position player pieces who are nowhere near being MLB ready and likely never will be.
Despite his rather disingenuous and utterly unserious feigned interest in adding a RH bat, you are correct that he clearly never intended any such thing.
But not for the reason you cited.
Rather, he intends to give Walker one more look - but is really just buying time to see if Baez or Herrera can "next man up" in the RH corner outfield hunt if and when JW fails again.

Uh I was talking about LF.

So my reasoning is sound.

Walker was always going to be given more runway.

Same answer.
Your statement "And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him" is just half correct.
Correct in that Bloom was never serious about acquiring an outfielder (even though he feigned otherwise purely for propaganda reasons); incorrect in that the Cardinals very, very easily could have acquired one and indisputably had abundant resources through which to do so.
Bottom line: Bloom wanted to acquire pitchers and long-term long shots - with zero interest in acquiring a quality starting outfielder for 2026.
That is the reality, as proven by Bloom's behaviors.

The price point may have been his puke point.
A scenario where two things can exist.

He might be more inclined to spend resources on a specific need IF the
prize was good enough. IF that did not exist then take the highest return when in a season
that specific needs may be vaguer to himself than a couple of us fans that
have outfielder fatigue. Similar to taking the BPA in the draft instead of drafting
to need.

In the Donovan trade. What if Montes was offered and the group was not enamored
with his 34% SO profile. Besides there are more trades that could be made, there
always is.

The answer is in the behavior.
Bloom traded several assets and had plenty more to move as well.
He acquired pitching.
And several extremely iffy prospects who are far from being MLB players.
And draft picks who are unlikely to ever be significant MLB players.
But the one thing he did NOT acquire was a RH hitting outfielder.
Obviously, that was completely intentional.
Bottom line: the ONLY reason Bloom did not acquire a RH hitting outfielder is that, quite simply, he did not want to.

[Melville]

If he hits, Church has an outstanding arm for the position. And Baez is "waiting in the wings". It's time for Walker to make some strides.

Walker's leash is no longer than July 1.
He has either shown significant progress by that point, or his window in STL is closed.

Melville, so if Walker continues to struggle going into July. What wou;d you do regarding the RF situaion? There don't appear to be many options.

I would do what I already would have done: trade for one.
Failing to do so was one of Bloom's 3 big mistakes so far (he has done several things well).

And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him.

I said that back in December and was proven to be right.

Partially right.
Bloom had plenty of expendable pieces to swing a trade for a young, cost controlled RH outfielder.
But his goal was to add some pitchers and some long-shot lottery position player pieces who are nowhere near being MLB ready and likely never will be.
Despite his rather disingenuous and utterly unserious feigned interest in adding a RH bat, you are correct that he clearly never intended any such thing.
But not for the reason you cited.
Rather, he intends to give Walker one more look - but is really just buying time to see if Baez or Herrera can "next man up" in the RH corner outfield hunt if and when JW fails again.

Uh I was talking about LF.

So my reasoning is sound.

Walker was always going to be given more runway.

Same answer.
Your statement "And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him" is just half correct.
Correct in that Bloom was never serious about acquiring an outfielder (even though he feigned otherwise purely for propaganda reasons); incorrect in that the Cardinals very, very easily could have acquired one and indisputably had abundant resources through which to do so.
Bottom line: Bloom wanted to acquire pitchers and long-term long shots - with zero interest in acquiring a quality starting outfielder for 2026.
That is the reality, as proven by Bloom's behaviors.

Two things.

Ultimately he did not trade for one so what I said cant be discounted.

What can't be said is he had the prospects willing to give up to get one.

He doesn't because he's not willing to trade a Wetherholt or a Doyle.

Otherwise who would qualify to bring back such an OFer?

No one is discounting what you said.
You said he would not, and he did not.
But why not?
The answer is in the behavior.
Bloom traded several assets and had plenty more to move as well.
He acquired pitching.
And several extremely iffy prospects who are far from being MLB players.
And draft picks who are unlikely to ever be significant MLB players.
But the one thing he did NOT acquire was a RH hitting outfielder.
Obviously, that was completely intentional.
Bottom line: the ONLY reason Bloom did not acquire a RH hitting outfielder is that, quite simply, he did not want to.

[Melville]

If he hits, Church has an outstanding arm for the position. And Baez is "waiting in the wings". It's time for Walker to make some strides.

Walker's leash is no longer than July 1.
He has either shown significant progress by that point, or his window in STL is closed.

Melville, so if Walker continues to struggle going into July. What wou;d you do regarding the RF situaion? There don't appear to be many options.

I would do what I already would have done: trade for one.
Failing to do so was one of Bloom's 3 big mistakes so far (he has done several things well).

And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him.

I said that back in December and was proven to be right.

Partially right.
Bloom had plenty of expendable pieces to swing a trade for a young, cost controlled RH outfielder.
But his goal was to add some pitchers and some long-shot lottery position player pieces who are nowhere near being MLB ready and likely never will be.
Despite his rather disingenuous and utterly unserious feigned interest in adding a RH bat, you are correct that he clearly never intended any such thing.
But not for the reason you cited.
Rather, he intends to give Walker one more look - but is really just buying time to see if Baez or Herrera can "next man up" in the RH corner outfield hunt if and when JW fails again.

Uh I was talking about LF.

So my reasoning is sound.

Walker was always going to be given more runway.

Same answer.
Your statement "And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him" is just half correct.
Correct in that Bloom was never serious about acquiring an outfielder (even though he feigned otherwise purely for propaganda reasons); incorrect in that the Cardinals very, very easily could have acquired one and indisputably had abundant resources through which to do so.
Bottom line: Bloom wanted to acquire pitchers and long-term long shots - with zero interest in acquiring a quality starting outfielder for 2026.
That is the reality, as proven by Bloom's behaviors.

Which was the right move my bloom. There is no needle moving OFer available for what the cardinals were offering. Trading for a league average OFer makes as much sense as trading a 20 for two 10s. Maybe it helps with cash tips but there is no long term value to be gained, and long term is the only term to concern yourself with. Now, if he had traded for more prospect position players, then fine.

We disagree.
80% of the pieces Bloom acquired will never make quality contributions to the Cardinals - or any other team.
That is simply how it works.
So, the only real question is why Bloom took the route that he did.
The answer is in the behavior.
Bloom traded several assets and had plenty more to move as well.
He acquired pitching.
And several extremely iffy prospects who are far from being MLB players.
And draft picks who are unlikely to ever be significant MLB players.
But the one thing he did NOT acquire was a RH hitting outfielder.
Obviously, that was completely intentional.
Bottom line: the ONLY reason Bloom did not acquire a RH hitting outfielder is that, quite simply, he did not want to.
Why didn't he want a RH hitting outfielder?
Because, contrary to his original claims, he does not care one bit about winning in 2026 - though he won't object if it happens.
Walker - and then Baez and Herrera if merited - is who and what he wants to look at in 2026 in considering the RH hitting corner outfield question.
It is as simple as that.

[renostl]

If he hits, Church has an outstanding arm for the position. And Baez is "waiting in the wings". It's time for Walker to make some strides.

Walker's leash is no longer than July 1.
He has either shown significant progress by that point, or his window in STL is closed.

Melville, so if Walker continues to struggle going into July. What wou;d you do regarding the RF situaion? There don't appear to be many options.

I would do what I already would have done: trade for one.
Failing to do so was one of Bloom's 3 big mistakes so far (he has done several things well).

And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him.

I said that back in December and was proven to be right.

Partially right.
Bloom had plenty of expendable pieces to swing a trade for a young, cost controlled RH outfielder.
But his goal was to add some pitchers and some long-shot lottery position player pieces who are nowhere near being MLB ready and likely never will be.
Despite his rather disingenuous and utterly unserious feigned interest in adding a RH bat, you are correct that he clearly never intended any such thing.
But not for the reason you cited.
Rather, he intends to give Walker one more look - but is really just buying time to see if Baez or Herrera can "next man up" in the RH corner outfield hunt if and when JW fails again.

Uh I was talking about LF.

So my reasoning is sound.

Walker was always going to be given more runway.

Same answer.
Your statement "And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him" is just half correct.
Correct in that Bloom was never serious about acquiring an outfielder (even though he feigned otherwise purely for propaganda reasons); incorrect in that the Cardinals very, very easily could have acquired one and indisputably had abundant resources through which to do so.
Bottom line: Bloom wanted to acquire pitchers and long-term long shots - with zero interest in acquiring a quality starting outfielder for 2026.
That is the reality, as proven by Bloom's behaviors.

The price point may have been his puke point.
A scenario where two things can exist.

He might be more inclined to spend resources on a specific need IF the
prize was good enough. IF that did not exist then take the highest return when in a season
that specific needs may be vaguer to himself than a couple of us fans that
have outfielder fatigue. Similar to taking the BPA in the draft instead of drafting
to need.

In the Donovan trade. What if Montes was offered and the group was not enamored
with his 34% SO profile. Besides there are more trades that could be made, there
always is.

The answer is in the behavior.
Bloom traded several assets and had plenty more to move as well.
He acquired pitching.
And several extremely iffy prospects who are far from being MLB players.
And draft picks who are unlikely to ever be significant MLB players.
But the one thing he did NOT acquire was a RH hitting outfielder.
Obviously, that was completely intentional.
Bottom line: the ONLY reason Bloom did not acquire a RH hitting outfielder is that, quite simply, he did not want to.

Then your position becomes that all moves made are probable failures
against the mythical player was to be a successful acquisition.
That there will not be future opportunities. That people who are 1 of 30
in the world in the position don't have knowledge of success rates of players.

He traded some assets very true. He actually has more assets now that
if he chooses will appeal more to all teams not just a win now contender.

[woofy25]

If he hits, Church has an outstanding arm for the position. And Baez is "waiting in the wings". It's time for Walker to make some strides.

Walker's leash is no longer than July 1.
He has either shown significant progress by that point, or his window in STL is closed.

Melville, so if Walker continues to struggle going into July. What wou;d you do regarding the RF situaion? There don't appear to be many options.

I would do what I already would have done: trade for one.
Failing to do so was one of Bloom's 3 big mistakes so far (he has done several things well).

And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him.

I said that back in December and was proven to be right.

Partially right.
Bloom had plenty of expendable pieces to swing a trade for a young, cost controlled RH outfielder.
But his goal was to add some pitchers and some long-shot lottery position player pieces who are nowhere near being MLB ready and likely never will be.
Despite his rather disingenuous and utterly unserious feigned interest in adding a RH bat, you are correct that he clearly never intended any such thing.
But not for the reason you cited.
Rather, he intends to give Walker one more look - but is really just buying time to see if Baez or Herrera can "next man up" in the RH corner outfield hunt if and when JW fails again.

Uh I was talking about LF.

So my reasoning is sound.

Walker was always going to be given more runway.

Same answer.
Your statement "And he was never going to trade for a proven productive one which would cost too much nor an up and coming cost controlled one which are at a premium and the Cardinals didn't have the horsepower to trade for him" is just half correct.
Correct in that Bloom was never serious about acquiring an outfielder (even though he feigned otherwise purely for propaganda reasons); incorrect in that the Cardinals very, very easily could have acquired one and indisputably had abundant resources through which to do so.
Bottom line: Bloom wanted to acquire pitchers and long-term long shots - with zero interest in acquiring a quality starting outfielder for 2026.
That is the reality, as proven by Bloom's behaviors.

Which was the right move my bloom. There is no needle moving OFer available for what the cardinals were offering. Trading for a league average OFer makes as much sense as trading a 20 for two 10s. Maybe it helps with cash tips but there is no long term value to be gained, and long term is the only term to concern yourself with. Now, if he had traded for more prospect position players, then fine.

We disagree.
80% of the pieces Bloom acquired will never make quality contributions to the Cardinals - or any other team.
That is simply how it works.
So, the only real question is why Bloom took the route that he did.
The answer is in the behavior.
Bloom traded several assets and had plenty more to move as well.
He acquired pitching.
And several extremely iffy prospects who are far from being MLB players.
And draft picks who are unlikely to ever be significant MLB players.
But the one thing he did NOT acquire was a RH hitting outfielder.
Obviously, that was completely intentional.
Bottom line: the ONLY reason Bloom did not acquire a RH hitting outfielder is that, quite simply, he did not want to.
Why didn't he want a RH hitting outfielder?
Because, contrary to his original claims, he does not care one bit about winning in 2026 - though he won't object if it happens.
Walker - and then Baez and Herrera if merited - is who and what he wants to look at in 2026 in considering the RH hitting corner outfield question.
It is as simple as that.

You keep claiming Bloom said he intended to put a competitive team on the field in 2026. I have not seen nor read that. Even if he did, acquiring one OFer isn’t going to make the difference, especially with the caliber of OFer the cardinals could have gotten for what they had to offer