A Cap/Floor Proposal The Union Would Go For

[PacNWCardsfan2]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

[imyourhuckleberry]

That's crazy but I love the out of the box thinking RedBaron!

Can you imagine how quickly the Dodgers would buy up all of the Rockies cap space they could, the Mets the same w/the Marlins?

The fascinating thing would be if BDWJr would be a buyer or a seller?

Exactly. We would see exactly how much competitive balance actually means to the owners. The ability to sell cap space would allow teams to achieve the floor and still make a huge profit. It would allow the big spenders to continue to spend and the players to make their money. In essence, it’s still the CBT/revenue sharing, but the money goes directly to the smaller market teams. Baseball doesn’t have a spending problem. It has a revenue distribution problem. This solves that problem.

This won't work.
To cut it down to the very basics....the small market teams would all sell their cap and MLB would end up being in the same boat 3-5 years from now. The teams that have no interest in being competitive need to be punished..in other words, they need a reason to not suck.

How are you going to determine which teams are not interested in being competitive….and those that are simply inept at building an organization…

I submit the St. Louis cardinals as a club that wasted millions on lousy players…

So….were they not interested in winning….or just had no idea what they were doing?

On the OPs idea……if the Pirates and Marlins sold their cap every year and still only spent the bear minimum…that is not trying.
If you finish in the bottom 3 in payroll or sell more of your cap then 3 teams, I think you should lose first round draft picks and international money.

What if you make the playoffs it at least finish with a winning record? Why should they be punished for putting together a competitive team while smartly managing their payroll?

[TheJackBurton]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

that is nothing but voodoo accounting to not appear to be as in danger as they are.

During the month of may look at the majority of stadiums on the weeknights and you'll see 20k or less in 85% of them. Yet they'll still announce 32k tickets sold. The teams sell the vast majority of their tickets to ticket brokers and give them away so they can announce those numbers.

I went to exactly one Cards game last year, the announced attendance was something like 29.5k if there was 18k in the stadium I'd have been shocked.

The revenue thing is even more of that as a few teams have massive tv deals and with these idiotic theme ticket nights tickets are 20% more expensive on most evenings.

[PacNWCardsfan2]

You can choose to believe the number or not. That on you. I just give out the data.
For decades now, they have used ticket sales not turnstile numbers. That again are the numbers. Actual attendance only affect concessions and such.
Viewership has increased due to streaming, which also increases revenue.
It doesn't matter where the revenue comes from, it's still part of total revenue.
Again, you can call it what you want, doesn't change the facts.

[Bubble4427]

That's crazy but I love the out of the box thinking RedBaron!

Can you imagine how quickly the Dodgers would buy up all of the Rockies cap space they could, the Mets the same w/the Marlins?

The fascinating thing would be if BDWJr would be a buyer or a seller?

Exactly. We would see exactly how much competitive balance actually means to the owners. The ability to sell cap space would allow teams to achieve the floor and still make a huge profit. It would allow the big spenders to continue to spend and the players to make their money. In essence, it’s still the CBT/revenue sharing, but the money goes directly to the smaller market teams. Baseball doesn’t have a spending problem. It has a revenue distribution problem. This solves that problem.

This won't work.
To cut it down to the very basics....the small market teams would all sell their cap and MLB would end up being in the same boat 3-5 years from now. The teams that have no interest in being competitive need to be punished..in other words, they need a reason to not suck.

How are you going to determine which teams are not interested in being competitive….and those that are simply inept at building an organization…

I submit the St. Louis cardinals as a club that wasted millions on lousy players…

So….were they not interested in winning….or just had no idea what they were doing?

On the OPs idea……if the Pirates and Marlins sold their cap every year and still only spent the bear minimum…that is not trying.
If you finish in the bottom 3 in payroll or sell more of your cap then 3 teams, I think you should lose first round draft picks and international money.

What if you make the playoffs it at least finish with a winning record? Why should they be punished for putting together a competitive team while smartly managing their payroll?

Then the penalties get waived.

[mattmitchl44]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

I hope that the small and mid-market owners are smart enough businessmen to see the long term threat and not be like the frog that sits happily in the pot as the temperature of the water gets turned up slowly until it is too late.

[sikeston bulldog2]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

I hope that the small and mid-market owners are smart enough businessmen to see the long term threat and not be like the frog that sits happily in the pot as the temperature of the water gets turned up slowly until it is too late.

I know frogs. They will jump out when it gets too hot. Same for the business owner.

[makesnosense]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

that is nothing but voodoo accounting to not appear to be as in danger as they are.

During the month of may look at the majority of stadiums on the weeknights and you'll see 20k or less in 85% of them. Yet they'll still announce 32k tickets sold. The teams sell the vast majority of their tickets to ticket brokers and give them away so they can announce those numbers.

I went to exactly one Cards game last year, the announced attendance was something like 29.5k if there was 18k in the stadium I'd have been shocked.

The revenue thing is even more of that as a few teams have massive tv deals and with these idiotic theme ticket nights tickets are 20% more expensive on most evenings.

The vodoo accounting is done by the owners. They cry poor, but won't open their books to show the numbers.

[Talkin' Baseball]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

that is nothing but voodoo accounting to not appear to be as in danger as they are.

During the month of may look at the majority of stadiums on the weeknights and you'll see 20k or less in 85% of them. Yet they'll still announce 32k tickets sold. The teams sell the vast majority of their tickets to ticket brokers and give them away so they can announce those numbers.

I went to exactly one Cards game last year, the announced attendance was something like 29.5k if there was 18k in the stadium I'd have been shocked.

The revenue thing is even more of that as a few teams have massive tv deals and with these idiotic theme ticket nights tickets are 20% more expensive on most evenings.

The vodoo accounting is done by the owners. They cry poor, but won't open their books to show the numbers.

I have no doubt that the owners don't tell the truth about their finances. That said, they are under no obligation to open their books to the public (unless they are asking for public financing), or their employees. If you don't like the contract you are offered- don't sign it. If a better deal exists for you somewhere else- do that.

[Red7]

First, eliminate the CBT. Cap ceiling $400 million. Cap floor $200 million. Teams can sell whatever cap space they have to teams wanting to exceed the cap. Example: Reds have met the $200 million floor. They can sell the remaining $200 million. There would be no limit to the amount a team could purchase or how many teams they can buy cap space from. That should make everyone happy.

Definitely points for creativity on this, but wouldn’t it just be a more complex version of revenue sharing?

Yes. Which is what baseball needs more than a cap. They need better revenue distribution. What makes baseball different than football is the value of local broadcast rights. For instance, much was made over the Cardinals $1 billion deal with FSMW. However, that was the total value over 13 years. The Dodgers local broadcast rights are worth more than that per YEAR. It’s akin to what was going on in the Big 12 with the Longhorn Network.

[Red7]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

that is nothing but voodoo accounting to not appear to be as in danger as they are.

During the month of may look at the majority of stadiums on the weeknights and you'll see 20k or less in 85% of them. Yet they'll still announce 32k tickets sold. The teams sell the vast majority of their tickets to ticket brokers and give them away so they can announce those numbers.

I went to exactly one Cards game last year, the announced attendance was something like 29.5k if there was 18k in the stadium I'd have been shocked.

The revenue thing is even more of that as a few teams have massive tv deals and with these idiotic theme ticket nights tickets are 20% more expensive on most evenings.

The vodoo accounting is done by the owners. They cry poor, but won't open their books to show the numbers.

I have no doubt that the owners don't tell the truth about their finances. That said, they are under no obligation to open their books to the public (unless they are asking for public financing), or their employees. If you don't like the contract you are offered- don't sign it. If a better deal exists for you somewhere else- do that.

That’s fine. But…the owners want to limit the players ability to do that. Kyle Tucker didn’t like what he was being offered so he found a better deal with the Dodgers.

[TheJackBurton]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

that is nothing but voodoo accounting to not appear to be as in danger as they are.

During the month of may look at the majority of stadiums on the weeknights and you'll see 20k or less in 85% of them. Yet they'll still announce 32k tickets sold. The teams sell the vast majority of their tickets to ticket brokers and give them away so they can announce those numbers.

I went to exactly one Cards game last year, the announced attendance was something like 29.5k if there was 18k in the stadium I'd have been shocked.

The revenue thing is even more of that as a few teams have massive tv deals and with these idiotic theme ticket nights tickets are 20% more expensive on most evenings.

The vodoo accounting is done by the owners. They cry poor, but won't open their books to show the numbers.

Did I say it wasn't?

[TheJackBurton]

You can choose to believe the number or not. That on you. I just give out the data.
For decades now, they have used ticket sales not turnstile numbers. That again are the numbers. Actual attendance only affect concessions and such.
Viewership has increased due to streaming, which also increases revenue.
It doesn't matter where the revenue comes from, it's still part of total revenue.
Again, you can call it what you want, doesn't change the facts.

ok let's look at streaming for instance.

You say they have a large amount of revenue coming from streaming.

Well I for one for the past 5 or so seasons had the mlb tv app. Now did I purchase the plan? Absolutely not. I agreed to it through T-mobile since it was free so T-mobile paid them.

I am no longer with T-mobile so I will not be getting the mlb tv app. I'm simply one person, but T-mobile has seen a lot of people leave their services so those are people who likely got the mlb tv app for free, that T-mobile sent money to the mlb for, that no longer will.

Now will T-mobile replace those that left? Probably some, but it is quickly becoming of the most expensive services out there, and does nothing for long standing clients which is why they are scrambling to put deals together to entice new clients.

Now that's going to hurt revenue. 9 teams losing their regional sports network deals is going to hurt revenue. Ticket brokers aren't going to continue to hold up major league teams if they can't sell tickets, which will hurt revenue.

[PacNWCardsfan2]

You selected a single streaming app. There are other streaming services.
There are several, just like Cards, that are selling their own packages.
As for T-Mobile, many were buying MLB.TV prior to them contracting with T-Mobile.
Some will return to purchasing it. I believe the agreement is thru 2028, then back to buying it. I am one of those. On a side note, I have been on the 2 largest carriers, T-Mobile is head and shoulders the best, but that's a different topic.
Back to baseball, the loss of some of the broadcast services is a hit, but not as big to the overall picture. The MLB has taken it over and now they will get the revenue. True, less to the teams, but still counts as MLB revenue.
One cannot look at it from a single team, Cards, perspective. It the whole league that is growing.

[ClassicO]

The delusion is that some think the owners worry over being competitive.
This is a business first and foremost. The owner want to make a profit, that what businesses do.

I think the small and mid market owners are coming around to a realization that a growing sense of a lack of competitiveness is an existential threat to their business.

Continue down the path they are on, if/when only a handful of teams can field enough talent to win a WS for 10, 15, etc. years in a row, and what happens to the other 25 teams? When do all of their fans start saying "what's the point?" and find other ways to spend their time and money? Then their revenues and the values of their teams dry up.

They have to address competitiveness before it gets to that point.

It may come to that someday. But currently, the MLB is seeing year over year increases in revenue, attendance, viewership, and salaries. As long that trend continues, no major changes will occur. With even the current revenue sharing, the small and mid markets are still making an acceptable profit. That is what the owners care about.

I agree with what you say, just not the urgency.

that is nothing but voodoo accounting to not appear to be as in danger as they are.

During the month of may look at the majority of stadiums on the weeknights and you'll see 20k or less in 85% of them. Yet they'll still announce 32k tickets sold. The teams sell the vast majority of their tickets to ticket brokers and give them away so they can announce those numbers.

I went to exactly one Cards game last year, the announced attendance was something like 29.5k if there was 18k in the stadium I'd have been shocked.

The revenue thing is even more of that as a few teams have massive tv deals and with these idiotic theme ticket nights tickets are 20% more expensive on most evenings.

The vodoo accounting is done by the owners. They cry poor, but won't open their books to show the numbers.

^^^^
This.

Two teams are public, and therefore, the finances are public. Here's what that tells us (per ChatGPT):

"The two publicly held MLB-related entities (the Atlanta Braves and the Toronto Blue Jays/Rogers Communications) show that MLB teams make far more money—and spend far more—than the league’s privately owned teams usually disclose, and they give us a solid window into how the rest of the league likely looks financially.

Key takeaways from their financials:

• Revenues are substantially higher than most teams suggest, typically in the $450M–$650M per year range depending on market size and new stadium-related income.
• Operating income (EBITDA) is positive for large-market teams, even after aggressive spending.
• Most “losses” reported by MLB owners are accounting losses, driven by amortization, revenue-sharing calculations, and team-owned RSNs—meaning cash flow is healthier than claimed.
• Stadium districts are major profit centers. The Braves’ mixed‑use development (The Battery) produces tens of millions in high-margin income—suggesting many privately owned teams with adjacent real estate are also making money off-book.
• Player payroll is the largest expense, but even high-payroll teams show sustainable margins.
• Media rights remain the biggest revenue driver, and the public teams show that local TV deals are often richer than estimated for private clubs.

What this implies about other teams:

• Most MLB teams are almost certainly profitable on an operating basis.
• Small-market teams, despite revenue sharing, likely generate solid positive cash flow unless intentionally suppressing payroll.
• Owners have strong incentives to underreport profitability because it helps in CBAs, public funding negotiations, and competitive balance discussions.
• Franchise values—now averaging over $2B—are supported by long‑run cash flow that mirrors what we see from the Braves and Jays."