Jim Hayes , Kyle Gibson, & Lance Lynn discuss if Oli deserves an extension ?

[ScotchMIrish]

Oddly, the only place I hear negative reviews of Oli and calls for his firing are from this forum (and probably X if I read comments) and, with all due respect, none of you are close enough to the team to know your head from your backside.

I'm also reminded that this same forum collectively called for the firing of every manager employed during its existence. I have no doubt the beloved and saintly Whitey also would have experience regular calls for his firing if this forum was around then but everything looks better (or less worse) with the passage of time.

Unlikely there would have been legitimate calls for Whitey to be gone but it's possible given the poor ownership situation after Gussie passed. I would have loved to have seen Whitey or Torre as manager when DeWitt came in and started spending money.

[JuanAgosto]

Maybe lil oli should earn another extension. Being a career. 500 manager makes it questionable at best. Doing it so he doesn't feel pressure was and is ridiculous. This is MLB. This is StL. Managers should feel some pressure to win. This is not some resort where everyone relaxes. And to those saying "who could win with this roster?", maybe remember he had a solid core in 2023. And finished 20 games below. 500.

[ramfandan]

Oddly, the only place I hear negative reviews of Oli and calls for his firing are from this forum (and probably X if I read comments) and, with all due respect, none of you are close enough to the team to know your head from your backside.

I'm also reminded that this same forum collectively called for the firing of every manager employed during its existence. I have no doubt the beloved and saintly Whitey also would have experience regular calls for his firing if this forum was around then but everything looks better (or less worse) with the passage of time.

This forum is indeed a cesspool but one thing it gets 100% correct is the sentiment that Oli should 100% have been fired last offseason (and even more so today). Every Cardinal fan I talk to with a pulse believes that the Cardinals can and should do better than Oli at manager. Perhaps aside from this forum you're mostly consuming team friendly / controlled media?

It's astounding to me that the forum puts so much energy and dialog into Marmol. Bloom likes him. He'll be here for awhile.

Bloom is on record saying that he is not fond of managers / Head coaches being in 'lame duck' final season . As you say , Talkin Baseball , Bloom feels Oli is on the same page with him regarding the 'rebuild' plans. Would not surprise me if Bloom extends Oli quite early in 2026 .
They already had initial discussion a couple months ago. Agree or not, Bloom seems to want Oli and that is the voice that counts .

[Cardinals1964]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVz9djwJsa8


Interesting analysis by the two former Cardinals.


All three also discuss what player has the shortest leash this year ?

Their opinion is as relevant as CT posters, I guess.

[Cardinals1964]

Maybe lil oli should earn another extension. Being a career. 500 manager makes it questionable at best. Doing it so he doesn't feel pressure was and is ridiculous. This is MLB. This is StL. Managers should feel some pressure to win. This is not some resort where everyone relaxes. And to those saying "who could win with this roster?", maybe remember he had a solid core in 2023. And finished 20 games below. 500.

So, you are saying it’s the manager and not the horrible talent Billy put on the field, now? Make up your mind.

[JuanAgosto]

Maybe lil oli should earn another extension. Being a career. 500 manager makes it questionable at best. Doing it so he doesn't feel pressure was and is ridiculous. This is MLB. This is StL. Managers should feel some pressure to win. This is not some resort where everyone relaxes. And to those saying "who could win with this roster?", maybe remember he had a solid core in 2023. And finished 20 games below. 500.

So, you are saying it’s the manager and not the horrible talent Billy put on the field, now? Make up your mind.

What does the post say? His roster in 2023 was good enough to compete. They finished 20 under. 500. Lil oli acted like a clown throughout that season. And numb nuts Mozeliak gifted him an extension. Marmol should earn the next one. It will be tough now that old Billy has gone cheap.

[Strummer Jones]

He should have to earn an extension. He has not done that yet.

He has, however, earned a long walk on a short plank.
Hopefully, Bloom possesses the strength and integrity to fire The Marmot sometime before the 60-game mark if the team is under .500.

What about this team as currently constructed do you think makes it a .500 team?

What manager could take this team as currently constructed to a .500 or better record?

Will your tune change if the team is around.500 after sixty games?

If properly managed, the infield should be one of the best in the NL.
The bullpen should be a strength.
The rotation should be deeper and better than a year ago (side note: The Marmot's handling of the rotation last year was one of the worst I have ever witnessed and is consistently an area where he produces terrible work).
Pages and Crooks should a very solid tandem - not great, but good enough.
The outfield is a disaster - but not worse than last year.
Yes - there is enough talent to be above .500.
And winning must be an expectation applied to both the players AND the staff.
If the team is under .500 at the 60 game mark, zero question The Marmot should be terminated.
Otherwise, exactly what is he being paid for and why bother playing the games?
As for my tune - there is not one to change.
Under .500 at 60 games (or any time after 45) he should be fired.
If above .500 at 60, retain him.
But if the team folds yet again in the 2nd half, as it has the past 2 years, and fails to achieve a W/C at year end, he should be fired.
No different from what I have been correctly and consistently analyzing for quite some time now.

The rotation had Pallante and Mikolas all last year and Fedde for a large part of it. I'll agree that this year is better, but mostly by virtue of having those bums gone. Tony LaRussa wouldn't have gotten jack from those guys.

Bullpen was a strength last year. So if Marmol is to blame for last year's garbage rotation... shouldn't he be responsible for the bullpen too?

There's a big chance Pages isn't the starter. Crooks likely heads to Memphis barring injuries. Even then, Pozo probably gets his shot first.

The outfield is UNDOUBTEDLY worse this year. Scott and Walker return. Burly is at first now, and Donnie, who played some LF, is gone. If this outfield improves, looking at you Scott and Walker, doesn't that mean Marmol deserves some credit?

And please, PLEASE just spare me the "I'm obviously correct" okey-doke. You're pulling half truths and conjecture out of your rear. You're a joke. Have been for years now.

[Cardinals1964]

Maybe lil oli should earn another extension. Being a career. 500 manager makes it questionable at best. Doing it so he doesn't feel pressure was and is ridiculous. This is MLB. This is StL. Managers should feel some pressure to win. This is not some resort where everyone relaxes. And to those saying "who could win with this roster?", maybe remember he had a solid core in 2023. And finished 20 games below. 500.

So, you are saying it’s the manager and not the horrible talent Billy put on the field, now? Make up your mind.

What does the post say? His roster in 2023 was good enough to compete. They finished 20 under. 500. Lil oli acted like a clown throughout that season. And numb nuts Mozeliak gifted him an extension. Marmol should earn the next one. It will be tough now that old Billy has gone cheap.

You’ve said in other posts that the Cardinals don’t have the talent. That Billy was cheap. Right?
Clearly his roster in 2023 wasn’t good enough to compete. The manager really doesn’t make that much difference.

[hugeCardfan]

Oli managing or not managing is not a viable topic. Bloom is in a far better position to determine Marmol's future as manager.

[JuanAgosto]

Maybe lil oli should earn another extension. Being a career. 500 manager makes it questionable at best. Doing it so he doesn't feel pressure was and is ridiculous. This is MLB. This is StL. Managers should feel some pressure to win. This is not some resort where everyone relaxes. And to those saying "who could win with this roster?", maybe remember he had a solid core in 2023. And finished 20 games below. 500.

So, you are saying it’s the manager and not the horrible talent Billy put on the field, now? Make up your mind.

What does the post say? His roster in 2023 was good enough to compete. They finished 20 under. 500. Lil oli acted like a clown throughout that season. And numb nuts Mozeliak gifted him an extension. Marmol should earn the next one. It will be tough now that old Billy has gone cheap.

You’ve said in other posts that the Cardinals don’t have the talent. That Billy was cheap. Right?
Clearly his roster in 2023 wasn’t good enough to compete. The manager really doesn’t make that much difference.

Yes, a manager makes a difference. Otherwise teams wouldn't pay one.

[Melville]

He should have to earn an extension. He has not done that yet.

He has, however, earned a long walk on a short plank.
Hopefully, Bloom possesses the strength and integrity to fire The Marmot sometime before the 60-game mark if the team is under .500.

What about this team as currently constructed do you think makes it a .500 team?

What manager could take this team as currently constructed to a .500 or better record?

Will your tune change if the team is around.500 after sixty games?

If properly managed, the infield should be one of the best in the NL.
The bullpen should be a strength.
The rotation should be deeper and better than a year ago (side note: The Marmot's handling of the rotation last year was one of the worst I have ever witnessed and is consistently an area where he produces terrible work).
Pages and Crooks should a very solid tandem - not great, but good enough.
The outfield is a disaster - but not worse than last year.
Yes - there is enough talent to be above .500.
And winning must be an expectation applied to both the players AND the staff.
If the team is under .500 at the 60 game mark, zero question The Marmot should be terminated.
Otherwise, exactly what is he being paid for and why bother playing the games?
As for my tune - there is not one to change.
Under .500 at 60 games (or any time after 45) he should be fired.
If above .500 at 60, retain him.
But if the team folds yet again in the 2nd half, as it has the past 2 years, and fails to achieve a W/C at year end, he should be fired.
No different from what I have been correctly and consistently analyzing for quite some time now.

The rotation had Pallante and Mikolas all last year and Fedde for a large part of it. I'll agree that this year is better, but mostly by virtue of having those bums gone. Tony LaRussa wouldn't have gotten jack from those guys.

Bullpen was a strength last year. So if Marmol is to blame for last year's garbage rotation... shouldn't he be responsible for the bullpen too?

There's a big chance Pages isn't the starter. Crooks likely heads to Memphis barring injuries. Even then, Pozo probably gets his shot first.

The outfield is UNDOUBTEDLY worse this year. Scott and Walker return. Burly is at first now, and Donnie, who played some LF, is gone. If this outfield improves, looking at you Scott and Walker, doesn't that mean Marmol deserves some credit?

And please, PLEASE just spare me the "I'm obviously correct" okey-doke. You're pulling half truths and conjecture out of your rear. You're a joke. Have been for years now.

My analysis above is perfectly correct.
You should never expect anything less.
But it is never about me.
Only and always about the game.
I see that you are in agreement with much of my post.
Wise man.
Yes, the outfield is a trainwreck and no one has been as accurate as I have been in pointing out that failing to address it was one of Bloom's two biggest mistakes so far (though he has made several other good decisions).
That said, there is no way it can be worse than last year.
Scott and Walker were as bad as it gets, and Bloom is determined to move on from Lars The Human Sushi-baar as quickly as feasible - ending one of the worst infatuations from the Super Slo Mo era.
So yes, even though on this date the outfield is a trainwreck, Bloom will belatedly address it at some point and attempt to repair his failure.
Appreciate the dialogue with you.
My advice?
Keep reading.
Keep learning.

[RichieRichSTL]

It's very simple. He is here to oversee the testing and development of young talent at the major league level, while keeping the team marginally competitive.

If he leads an unmitigated disaster, he loses his job. I can't see how he keeps his job is player development is underwhelming and he wins say 55 games.

If he greatly overachieves, he could get an extension. If players flourish under him and the team takes the division with 90+ wins, something must be right.

In between, Bloom determines.

Essentially, Marmol.has some space in the rebuild window to prove himself. Once, we are closer to seriously compete again, Bloom will want someone who he thinks can take this team to the next step. If Marmol hasn't proven that, I have no doubt Bloom will eye someone who has shown that.

2026 will be a significant change year, it was reasonable to not add to the disruption. A proven manager will want to win now. Oli is just happy to still be managing here and will be more compliant to moves geared towards development/evaluation of talent at the expense of winning.

[Melville]

It's very simple. He is here to oversee the testing and development of young talent at the major league level, while keeping the team marginally competitive.

If he leads an unmitigated disaster, he loses his job. I can't see how he keeps his job is player development is underwhelming and he wins say 55 games.

If he greatly overachieves, he could get an extension. If players flourish under him and the team takes the division with 90+ wins, something must be right.

In between, Bloom determines.

Essentially, Marmol.has some space in the rebuild window to prove himself. Once, we are closer to seriously compete again, Bloom will want someone who he thinks can take this team to the next step. If Marmol hasn't proven that, I have no doubt Bloom will eye someone who has shown that.

2026 will be a significant change year, it was reasonable to not add to the disruption. A proven manager will want to win now. Oli is just happy to still be managing here and will be more compliant to moves geared towards development/evaluation of talent at the expense of winning.

Your bottom line assessment is correct.
The Marmot must prove he can develop young players - and he had been a disaster on that point from day one.
Currently, he is thrilled DeWitt did not permit Bloom to fire him.
But he knows the clock has already struck midnight and his termination is nearly inevitable in the near future.

[rockondlouie]

He'll likely get a one year extension that takes him through the 2027 (potential) lockout season, not on merit but only because he's one of the lowest paid Managers in MLB

But BDWJr won't want to pay a Manager much in 2027 if the lockout goes deep into the season.

Not what I want, I'd have fired him two years ago.

Then C. Bloom's fires him and almost all of his coaches after the 2027 season, bringing in "his" Manager for 2028 when Dewitt is ready to substantially increase the payroll.

JMO

[HighHeet]

He'll likely get a one year extension that takes him through the 2027 (potential) lockout season, not on merit but only because he's one of the lowest paid Managers in MLB

But BDWJr won't want to pay a Manager much in 2027 if the lockout goes deep into the season.

Not what I want, I'd have fired him two years ago. [Amen to that!!]

Then C. Bloom's fires him and almost all of his coaches after the 2027 season, bringing in "his" Manager for 2028 when Dewitt is ready to substantially increase the payroll.

JMO

Thanks Rock, couldn't agree more.

[rockondlouie]

He'll likely get a one year extension that takes him through the 2027 (potential) lockout season, not on merit but only because he's one of the lowest paid Managers in MLB

But BDWJr won't want to pay a Manager much in 2027 if the lockout goes deep into the season.

Not what I want, I'd have fired him two years ago. [Amen to that!!]

Then C. Bloom's fires him and almost all of his coaches after the 2027 season, bringing in "his" Manager for 2028 when Dewitt is ready to substantially increase the payroll.

JMO

Thanks Rock, couldn't agree more.