A Generous Gift for the Tigers

[11WSChamps]

Thanks to Paul Vogel for his generous gift.

What I don't understand is why alumni would give to the athletic program as opposed to the Mizzou in general.

I assume the referenced Paul Vogel is this guy: Paul L. Vogel is a co-founder and director of TPC Capital Solutions, LLC, a family office consulting firm serving ultra-high net worth individuals and their advisors. With expertise in tax law, accounting, wealth management, and diverse business acumen, Vogel provides strategic guidance to help family offices and client families create comprehensive plans for themselves, their businesses, and future generations. Vogel is also Managing Partner of Vogel Law Office which advises families of significant wealth on tax, trust/estate, and business matters.

Prior to TPC and Vogel Law Office, Vogel founded Argos Family Office in St. Louis leveraging his background in public accounting, trust management, and advanced tax and legal credentials to serve the complex needs of ultra-affluent families.

Maybe because the athletic programs are self-sustaining.

The University is more self-sustaining than most people realize. Just 9.8% of the University's annual operating revenue comes from the state. 30 years ago that figure was 70%.

I wouldn't ever tell someone how to spend their money, so this isnt a judgment on Vogel's gift. I view it as incredibly generous. I make this comment because the state support is a much smaller % than most would guess and I think that erroneous perception is evident in this thread.

https://www.giving.missouri.edu/s/1002/ ... &pgid=7812

That's the reason tuition/housing costs have risen so much in the past 50 years - state funding has plummeted. Yeah, were not supposed to get into politics - but the shift of Missouri from blue => purple => red follows the same trend. A university education is now viewed less as a societal benefit (partially taxpayer funded) but more as an individual choice (cost burden falls more on individual student). I don't think anyone had an erroneous perception on this thread about the above.

Lest we forget as you often do its not the "state" its the taxpayers.

It's called accountability.

The fact tuitions continue rise at record rates doesn't mean the taxpayers should keep footing the bill.

Most folks understand that state funding and federal funding means taxpayers.

It's perfectly fine to debate (well except for this forum) what commodities should be paid for by individuals or the state (or community or society or taxpayers - however you want to brand it). That debate revolves around all types of education. The reason tuition continued to rise (and room and board) is because of the shift in the funding burden. I didn't make any value statement on where the cost burden should lie, just stating the reason tuition has outpaced inflation.

A corollary argument has been the purpose of a college education. For many the primary purpose is for personal growth such as the development of critical thinking skills and exposure to lifetime learning. For others, it's simply a means to a better paying job. When I attended Mizzou the cost of course in basket weaving was the same as the cost for nuclear engineering (in fact the basket weaving course may cost more due to the weaving supplies needed!). Now, engineering courses are higher priced than say business classes due to the perceived job market benefits that favor recent engineering graduates vs. say a business graduate. Is that good or bad? I won't weigh in here, I'm just pointing out the facts. Don't shoot the messengers of truth. We already see too much of that in the real world.

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

[winonsports]

Thanks to Paul Vogel for his generous gift.

What I don't understand is why alumni would give to the athletic program as opposed to the Mizzou in general.
...

From the Athletic Dept:

"The Vogels are among Mizzou's most dedicated philanthropic leaders. ...

"This gift [is] coupled with campaign contributions to Athletics, the Trulaske College of Business and Children's Hospital."

It's ridiculous to assume because one way is taken, that means anything else is ignored.

Fascinating. Even when you have nothing to say, you say it anyway.

It's only nothing to the narrow minded.

Just because I'm Catholic, that doesn't mean you wouldn't see me playing pick-up games at The J every now and then.

[acco40]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

[11WSChamps]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

[3-2 Fastball]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

You're claiming that high total credit hours help explain why higher education costs have risen so steeply. A bachelor's degree in 2026 requires 120 credit hours. A bachelor's degree in 1926? Also 120 credit hours.

I'm beginning to question your critical thinking.

[11WSChamps]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

You're claiming that high total credit hours help explain why higher education costs have risen so steeply. A bachelor's degree in 2026 requires 120 credit hours. A bachelor's degree in 1926? Also 120 credit hours.

I'm beginning to question your critical thinking.

And I'm convinced you have none.

Again you can decrease the cost by not having to take so many hours that have nothing to do with a chosen major.

Try to keep up.

[Sophrosyne]

Thanks to Paul Vogel for his generous gift.

What I don't understand is why alumni would give to the athletic program as opposed to the Mizzou in general.

I assume the referenced Paul Vogel is this guy: Paul L. Vogel is a co-founder and director of TPC Capital Solutions, LLC, a family office consulting firm serving ultra-high net worth individuals and their advisors. With expertise in tax law, accounting, wealth management, and diverse business acumen, Vogel provides strategic guidance to help family offices and client families create comprehensive plans for themselves, their businesses, and future generations. Vogel is also Managing Partner of Vogel Law Office which advises families of significant wealth on tax, trust/estate, and business matters.

Prior to TPC and Vogel Law Office, Vogel founded Argos Family Office in St. Louis leveraging his background in public accounting, trust management, and advanced tax and legal credentials to serve the complex needs of ultra-affluent families.

I don't think you understand. Paul and his wife give considerably to other parts of Mizzou. Good heavens, the School of Accountancy is now named after him in recognition of a recent gift to that School.

[Sophrosyne]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

You're claiming that high total credit hours help explain why higher education costs have risen so steeply. A bachelor's degree in 2026 requires 120 credit hours. A bachelor's degree in 1926? Also 120 credit hours.

I'm beginning to question your critical thinking.

And I'm convinced you have none.

Again you can decrease the cost by not having to take so many hours that have nothing to do with a chosen major.

Try to keep up.

I agree with you that administrative costs, including all the staff that arguably add little or no educational function, seem to be growing in an uncontrolled manner. I disagree on reducing required credit hours apportioned to courses outside of a student's major area of study. Colleges need to turn out more that narrowly focused technocrats. They need to turn out broad thinkers, like, well, me .

By the way, you can usually view Paul during basketball telecasts in the first row just left of the scorers' table. He typically has the black and gold checked sport coat.

[acco40]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

It appears you're not a big fan of a college education.

[11WSChamps]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

It appears you're not a big fan of a college education.

This was predictable.

You cant make a logical case for the bloated college system which targets impressionable 18 year olds and knowing your history I know why so you make a false assumption about me.

I have a college degree and worked my way through school doing it.

It's an indictment of the high school education system if would be college students have to take so many classes that have nothing to with their major field of choice.

There's only one reason...money.

Furthering a person's education is always a plus but doing it at the expense of unnecessary costs is not.

[acco40]

Does Missouri pay for their citizens community college?

[11WSChamps]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

You're claiming that high total credit hours help explain why higher education costs have risen so steeply. A bachelor's degree in 2026 requires 120 credit hours. A bachelor's degree in 1926? Also 120 credit hours.

I'm beginning to question your critical thinking.

And I'm convinced you have none.

Again you can decrease the cost by not having to take so many hours that have nothing to do with a chosen major.

Try to keep up.

I agree with you that administrative costs, including all the staff that arguably add little or no educational function, seem to be growing in an uncontrolled manner. I disagree on reducing required credit hours apportioned to courses outside of a student's major area of study. Colleges need to turn out more that narrowly focused technocrats. They need to turn out broad thinkers, like, well, me .

By the way, you can usually view Paul during basketball telecasts in the first row just left of the scorers' table. He typically has the black and gold checked sport coat.

So you can only be a "broad thinker" by paying thousands of dollars for some non descript courses that have nothing to do with a desired career?

Man these "academia" types have sure done a number on some of you.

[Sophrosyne]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

You're claiming that high total credit hours help explain why higher education costs have risen so steeply. A bachelor's degree in 2026 requires 120 credit hours. A bachelor's degree in 1926? Also 120 credit hours.

I'm beginning to question your critical thinking.

And I'm convinced you have none.

Again you can decrease the cost by not having to take so many hours that have nothing to do with a chosen major.

Try to keep up.

I agree with you that administrative costs, including all the staff that arguably add little or no educational function, seem to be growing in an uncontrolled manner. I disagree on reducing required credit hours apportioned to courses outside of a student's major area of study. Colleges need to turn out more that narrowly focused technocrats. They need to turn out broad thinkers, like, well, me .

By the way, you can usually view Paul during basketball telecasts in the first row just left of the scorers' table. He typically has the black and gold checked sport coat.

So you can only be a "broad thinker" by paying thousands of dollars for some non descript courses that have nothing to do with a desired career?

Man these "academia" types have sure done a number on some of you.

I don't recall saying that is the only way to be a "broad thinker". Here, let me go back and re-read my prior comment..........Nope, as I thought, I never said that. Here is my point. If you cull all of the courses in humanities and other more subjective courses, you turn a college education into a technical school education for those seeking a technical degree. I don't think that is a good idea - you may not agree.

[3-2 Fastball]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

You're claiming that high total credit hours help explain why higher education costs have risen so steeply. A bachelor's degree in 2026 requires 120 credit hours. A bachelor's degree in 1926? Also 120 credit hours.

I'm beginning to question your critical thinking.

And I'm convinced you have none.

Again you can decrease the cost by not having to take so many hours that have nothing to do with a chosen major.

Try to keep up.

I agree with you that administrative costs, including all the staff that arguably add little or no educational function, seem to be growing in an uncontrolled manner. I disagree on reducing required credit hours apportioned to courses outside of a student's major area of study. Colleges need to turn out more that narrowly focused technocrats. They need to turn out broad thinkers, like, well, me .

By the way, you can usually view Paul during basketball telecasts in the first row just left of the scorers' table. He typically has the black and gold checked sport coat.

So you can only be a "broad thinker" by paying thousands of dollars for some non descript courses that have nothing to do with a desired career?

Man these "academia" types have sure done a number on some of you.

I don't recall saying that is the only way to be a "broad thinker". Here, let me go back and re-read my prior comment..........Nope, as I thought, I never said that. Here is my point. If you cull all of the courses in humanities and other more subjective courses, you turn a college education into a technical school education for those seeking a technical degree. I don't think that is a good idea - you may not agree.

The irony is palpable. Twice in this thread 11WS demonstrating he could benefit from a 3 credit hour course focused on developing skill in critical analysis of text.

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

[11WSChamps]

The truth is in bloated administrative staff, etc and who's administering student loans has made universities a cottage industry.

Making students take up to sometimes 60 hours of credits that have very little to do with a major area of study is ludicrous. It bloats the cost and cost everybody money.

They are no longer serving students best interests they are serving themselves.

Requiring courses outside of your major is nothing new. Again, what's the purpose of a college education? Some view the primary purpose is job training. Others view it as developing critical thinking skills.

Nothing new and unnecessary with the astronomical costs. That's the point.

As far as critical thinking skills I would hope they would learn that in the home and in your life experiences prior to college. You shouldn't necessarily have to go to college to acquire those.

As for job training businesses that hire you are going to train you their way regardless of what that degree supposedly trained you for.

You're claiming that high total credit hours help explain why higher education costs have risen so steeply. A bachelor's degree in 2026 requires 120 credit hours. A bachelor's degree in 1926? Also 120 credit hours.

I'm beginning to question your critical thinking.

And I'm convinced you have none.

Again you can decrease the cost by not having to take so many hours that have nothing to do with a chosen major.

Try to keep up.

I agree with you that administrative costs, including all the staff that arguably add little or no educational function, seem to be growing in an uncontrolled manner. I disagree on reducing required credit hours apportioned to courses outside of a student's major area of study. Colleges need to turn out more that narrowly focused technocrats. They need to turn out broad thinkers, like, well, me .

By the way, you can usually view Paul during basketball telecasts in the first row just left of the scorers' table. He typically has the black and gold checked sport coat.

So you can only be a "broad thinker" by paying thousands of dollars for some non descript courses that have nothing to do with a desired career?

Man these "academia" types have sure done a number on some of you.

I don't recall saying that is the only way to be a "broad thinker". Here, let me go back and re-read my prior comment..........Nope, as I thought, I never said that. Here is my point. If you cull all of the courses in humanities and other more subjective courses, you turn a college education into a technical school education for those seeking a technical degree. I don't think that is a good idea - you may not agree.

The irony is palpable. Twice in this thread 11WS demonstrating he could benefit from a 3 credit hour course focused on developing skill in critical analysis of text.

Sometimes you don't know what you don't know.

Tell you what I do know.

First off you're lack of comprehension borders on the obtuse.

Second you cant present anything that defends this bloated academic for lack of a better term system because you're obviously part of it or close to it help lining your pockets.

I've had two children get degrees and I don't know how many times them or their friends would talk about why are they having to pay so much for so many classes that have nothing to do with a designated career choice.

The price of college has doubled just in the last two decades.

Make an argument instead of making personal attacks.

[Curmudgeon]

It's the age-old question: Is a college education to prepare the student for a job with specialized skills for career advancement and higher earning potential, or is the goal to produce a broadly educated graduate, a well-rounded problem solver, an intellectually mature critical thinker? It is the differentiation between a trade-school approach and a classical liberal (not politically Liberal) education.