Cardinals Trade Grade = B+

[ecleme22]

we were still a couple years away after the 1998 season as well when we landed Renteria. Maybe we could trade for an Andy Pages who has YEARS of control left and is young enough to continue to extend. And we don't have better OFers in the system no matter how long we wait.

Anyway in 1999 we get Drew and Ankiel going, who are somewhat equivalent to JJW and Doyle as high prospects over the next couple years, with Edgar added to that young core. 1999 was a bust, but we brought in Will clark in 2000 and Pujols arrived in 2001 and we averaged 95 wins from 2000-2004 while Edgar was with us. Its wasn't too early in 1998 for a young star with control.

They also added Darryl Kile, Jim Edmonds, Fernando Viña & Woody Williams in that timeframe. The Cardinals aren’t poised to do anything like that.

they could choose to be in a position in the near future. There's plenty of dry poder

I’m not sure they could ‘choose’ to build a team the way Jocketty did 25 years ago… the payroll would not allow for it. Think of all the star players that were acquired and extended - only teams like the Dodgers & Yankees could manage anything like that now.

The Cardinals need to grow their own talent. They can enrich their system with a few trades, and hope to develop a core to build around. The thought of acquiring multiple, proven star players is not a reasonable expectation of a team that’s going to be in the bottom half in payroll.

Also, Vina and Williams weren't top "stars". They were solid proven MLB ballplayers who actually got better coming into Tony's system. We could still make these types of moves without being the Dodgers.

Totally agree. And the team will add these types once the foundation is figured out.

[Quincy Varnish]

they could choose to be in a position in the near future. There's plenty of dry poder

I’m not sure they could ‘choose’ to build a team the way Jocketty did 25 years ago… the payroll would not allow for it. Think of all the star players that were acquired and extended - only teams like the Dodgers & Yankees could manage anything like that now.

The Cardinals need to grow their own talent. They can enrich their system with a few trades, and hope to develop a core to build around. The thought of acquiring multiple, proven star players is not a reasonable expectation of a team that’s going to be in the bottom half in payroll.

Also, Vina and Williams weren't top "stars". They were solid proven MLB ballplayers who actually got better coming into Tony's system. We could still make these types of moves without being the Dodgers.

Viña was a 1998 AS… I guess not a ‘top’ star, but whatever. Williams was getting paid like a star when they acquired him, though he wasn’t living up to it, pre-Duncan dust.

Still they aren’t Ohtanis or Sotos. We could afford their equivalents without being the Dodgers.

We need some level homegrown talent but will never have sustained success with payroll in the bottom half and no significant outside additions. It needs to climb back into the 10-12 range where it historically has been in WS years.
And Mitch has promised us that Bloom will be allowed to spend on top veterans once the younger guys contribute.

Meanwhile adding young guys who are already producing just makes a lot of sense.

Why would the do what you’re suggesting? Acquire Woody Williams and Fernando Viña types to build around what? Neither of them were “young” and both were under hefty contracts. It should be obvious the team is not currently headed that direction, and they shouldn’t.

It doesn’t make sense to add complementary pieces to a team without a core.

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

What are we trading for Pages, and why are the Dodgers trading him?

[Quincy Varnish]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

I remain curious as to why the World Champion Dodgers are going to trade a cost-controlled, 3-4 WAR outfielder to the Cardinals, and what mind-blowing players they’re receiving in return.

[CCard]

Cardinals trade grade

Fitts had just an OK full year for the Sox, with a 5.00 ERA in 10 starts. But he's young and there's potential there, it seems.

Clarke is among the top-five prospects for the Sox, so that's a really good return there.

GRADE: B+


Red Sox trade grade

GRADE: B


-USAToday

It appears they got a pretty good deal for Gray. While neither at this point is as good as Gray, they both appear to have enough talent to make up the difference. Who knows, maybe they'll take the next step? Cutting payroll for nobodies is something I do not accept, but it appears they got somebodies. I'm sure that there's enough talent to at least be an average pitcher. I hope.

Imagine the GM telling us that the market never materialized and at the end of the season all that's left is to pay Sonny $5 million to go away

It could very well have happened that way. They did have to pitch in 20 million to get the deal done. That's close to a top tier starter in equal value. Of course it was only for one year though. Any top tier starter is going to ask for more years for sure.

[Ronnie Dobbs]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

But that's exactly what we're doing, besides trading for Andy Pages. We are trying to build a young core with our own guys, because what team is going to trade us young, cost controlled players like Pages who are cheap and under team control until 2031? I guess we could probably trade them Wetherholt and some more, but then we are back to square one with developing from within.

They're doing what they're doing because it's realistic. Payroll is down for a year or two, then we bring it up as these guys develop. It's exactly what you are saying, minus some unrealistic expectations. It's what a bunch of successful teams have done in the past and it worked for them.

[mattmitchl44]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

I remain curious as to why the World Champion Dodgers are going to trade a cost-controlled, 3-4 WAR outfielder to the Cardinals, and what mind-blowing players they’re receiving in return.

Yeah, the obvious problem with saying "go out and trade for an Andy Pages-like player" - a young player with multiple years of team control who is at least somewhat "proven" at the ML level - is, what is the profile of a team in 2025/2026 who is willing to move an Andy Pages-like player?

If a contending team has an Andy Pages-like player, they are no doubt counting on them to be a big part of their "win now" roster in 2026. They are an essential "value" piece that is part of the foundation of young, cost controlled players that they need in order to be competitive in 2026.

If a small market/rebuilding team has an Andy Pages-like player, what is their motivation for trading him, short of receiving a boatload of high value prospects? The Cardinals need to not be emptying out their minor league system of the Wetherholts, Doyles, etc. that it would take to get an Andy Pages from a small market/rebuilding team.

I don't think you get many teams wanting to move a James Wood, Masyn Winn, Wyatt Langford, Andy Pages, Elly De La Cruz, Jacob Wilson, Hunter Goodman, etc.

[Quincy Varnish]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

I remain curious as to why the World Champion Dodgers are going to trade a cost-controlled, 3-4 WAR outfielder to the Cardinals, and what mind-blowing players they’re receiving in return.

Yeah, the obvious problem with saying "go out and trade for an Andy Pages-like player" - a young player with multiple years of team control who is at least somewhat "proven" at the ML level - is, what is the profile of a team in 2025/2026 who is willing to move an Andy Pages-like player?

If a contending team has an Andy Pages-like player, they are no doubt counting on them to be a big part of their "win now" roster in 2026. They are an essential "value" piece that is part of the foundation of young, cost controlled players that they need in order to be competitive in 2026.

If a small market/rebuilding team has an Andy Pages-like player, what is their motivation for trading him, short of receiving a boatload of high value prospects? The Cardinals need to not be emptying out their minor league system of the Wetherholts, Doyles, etc. that it would take to get an Andy Pages from a small market/rebuilding team.

I don't think you get many teams wanting to move a James Wood, Masyn Winn, Wyatt Langford, Andy Pages, Elly De La Cruz, Jacob Wilson, Hunter Goodman, etc.

Aiming for an ‘MLB-ready’ player, they’re unlikely to find a anything like A. Pages made available unless 1) they have yet to reach their potential and their team is losing patience, and 2) the Cardinals have a player that fills an immediate need (Gray, Contreras, Donovan).

We need a team to hire John Mozeliak, which could free up an Alcantara, Arozarena, or Gallen type player

[mattmitchl44]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

I remain curious as to why the World Champion Dodgers are going to trade a cost-controlled, 3-4 WAR outfielder to the Cardinals, and what mind-blowing players they’re receiving in return.

Yeah, the obvious problem with saying "go out and trade for an Andy Pages-like player" - a young player with multiple years of team control who is at least somewhat "proven" at the ML level - is, what is the profile of a team in 2025/2026 who is willing to move an Andy Pages-like player?

If a contending team has an Andy Pages-like player, they are no doubt counting on them to be a big part of their "win now" roster in 2026. They are an essential "value" piece that is part of the foundation of young, cost controlled players that they need in order to be competitive in 2026.

If a small market/rebuilding team has an Andy Pages-like player, what is their motivation for trading him, short of receiving a boatload of high value prospects? The Cardinals need to not be emptying out their minor league system of the Wetherholts, Doyles, etc. that it would take to get an Andy Pages from a small market/rebuilding team.

I don't think you get many teams wanting to move a James Wood, Masyn Winn, Wyatt Langford, Andy Pages, Elly De La Cruz, Jacob Wilson, Hunter Goodman, etc.

Aiming for an ‘MLB-ready’ player, they’re unlikely to find a anything like A. Pages made available unless 1) they have yet to reach their potential and their team is losing patience, and 2) the Cardinals have a player that fills an immediate need (Gray, Contreras, Donovan).

We need a team to hire John Mozeliak, which could free up an Alcantara, Arozarena, or Gallen type player

I don't know how you get a A. Pages for even Donovan without adding quite a bit more. BTV values them about the same, but unless you think Pages 27 HRs with a fluke last year and that he'll drop off to being like a 2+ fWAR player, I don't see Donovan being enough.

[Quincy Varnish]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

I remain curious as to why the World Champion Dodgers are going to trade a cost-controlled, 3-4 WAR outfielder to the Cardinals, and what mind-blowing players they’re receiving in return.

Yeah, the obvious problem with saying "go out and trade for an Andy Pages-like player" - a young player with multiple years of team control who is at least somewhat "proven" at the ML level - is, what is the profile of a team in 2025/2026 who is willing to move an Andy Pages-like player?

If a contending team has an Andy Pages-like player, they are no doubt counting on them to be a big part of their "win now" roster in 2026. They are an essential "value" piece that is part of the foundation of young, cost controlled players that they need in order to be competitive in 2026.

If a small market/rebuilding team has an Andy Pages-like player, what is their motivation for trading him, short of receiving a boatload of high value prospects? The Cardinals need to not be emptying out their minor league system of the Wetherholts, Doyles, etc. that it would take to get an Andy Pages from a small market/rebuilding team.

I don't think you get many teams wanting to move a James Wood, Masyn Winn, Wyatt Langford, Andy Pages, Elly De La Cruz, Jacob Wilson, Hunter Goodman, etc.

Aiming for an ‘MLB-ready’ player, they’re unlikely to find a anything like A. Pages made available unless 1) they have yet to reach their potential and their team is losing patience, and 2) the Cardinals have a player that fills an immediate need (Gray, Contreras, Donovan).

We need a team to hire John Mozeliak, which could free up an Alcantara, Arozarena, or Gallen type player

I don't know how you get a A. Pages for even Donovan without adding quite a bit more. BTV values them about the same, but unless you think Pages 27 HRs with a fluke last year and that he'll drop off to being like a 2+ fWAR player, I don't see Donovan being enough.

If you buy into what MLB Network is reporting, Donovan is the most sought-after trade target this offseason. I doubt that would be the case if the Dodgers were publicly making Pages available. But if there are teams willing to part with their top prospects for Donovan, Pages doesn’t seem like an unreasonable ask. If the Cards needed to add anything, I’d guess it wouldn’t be a meaningful prospect - maybe a bullpen arm like Romero. That’s assuming the Dodgers are even willing to part with Pages, which I find doubtful. They’d probably be shooting for Skubal, or a comparably impactful player if they were.

[Carp4Cy]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

But that's exactly what we're doing, besides trading for Andy Pages. We are trying to build a young core with our own guys, because what team is going to trade us young, cost controlled players like Pages who are cheap and under team control until 2031? I guess we could probably trade them Wetherholt and some more, but then we are back to square one with developing from within.

They're doing what they're doing because it's realistic. Payroll is down for a year or two, then we bring it up as these guys develop. It's exactly what you are saying, minus some unrealistic expectations. It's what a bunch of successful teams have done in the past and it worked for them.

We didn’t give up either of our top 2 prospects for Renteria. Drew and Ankiel.

We have plenty of other trade chips. And we are very short on OFers.

Also Dodgers want Donovan.

[ICCFIM2]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

But that's exactly what we're doing, besides trading for Andy Pages. We are trying to build a young core with our own guys, because what team is going to trade us young, cost controlled players like Pages who are cheap and under team control until 2031? I guess we could probably trade them Wetherholt and some more, but then we are back to square one with developing from within.

They're doing what they're doing because it's realistic. Payroll is down for a year or two, then we bring it up as these guys develop. It's exactly what you are saying, minus some unrealistic expectations. It's what a bunch of successful teams have done in the past and it worked for them.

We didn’t give up either of our top 2 prospects for Renteria. Drew and Ankiel.

We have plenty of other trade chips. And we are very short on OFers.

Also Dodgers want Donovan.

The Dodgers top prospects are all OFs, albeit, the best ones are likely to start 2026 at AA. The top guy, Josue De Paula, has a BTV of $47M, which is higher than Donovan's $32M. These types of trades tend to see the team trading prospects trade higher BTV for a lower BTV MLB level player. If I was the Cards, I would try to get River Ryan as well. Include Jo Jo Romero with Donovan to see if they will bite. I would even include a catcher if they wanted that in addition, not named Herrera or Bernal.

If the Cards could do that and then get another decent prospect for Contreras plus cash, a prospect that is either an OF or a P, the Cards would have replenished their pipeline entirely. The team would be a couple years out. But, they would at least have elite talent in the system. 2026 would be a tough year to watch. But, my expectations would be they could contend for the playoffs in 2027 and potentially be division favorites by 2028 with a bunch of guys controlled for 5-6 years.

[rockondlouie]

No I’m suggesting building a young core of already known quantities like Andy Pages. Then in a yea or so add more vets to build around them and fill what we don’t have and haven’t been able to produce from our minors.

But that's exactly what we're doing, besides trading for Andy Pages. We are trying to build a young core with our own guys, because what team is going to trade us young, cost controlled players like Pages who are cheap and under team control until 2031? I guess we could probably trade them Wetherholt and some more, but then we are back to square one with developing from within.

They're doing what they're doing because it's realistic. Payroll is down for a year or two, then we bring it up as these guys develop. It's exactly what you are saying, minus some unrealistic expectations. It's what a bunch of successful teams have done in the past and it worked for them.

We didn’t give up either of our top 2 prospects for Renteria. Drew and Ankiel.

We have plenty of other trade chips. And we are very short on OFers.

Also Dodgers want Donovan.

The Dodgers top prospects are all OFs, albeit, the best ones are likely to start 2026 at AA. The top guy, Josue De Paula, has a BTV of $47M, which is higher than Donovan's $32M. These types of trades tend to see the team trading prospects trade higher BTV for a lower BTV MLB level player. If I was the Cards, I would try to get River Ryan as well. Include Jo Jo Romero with Donovan to see if they will bite. I would even include a catcher if they wanted that in addition, not named Herrera or Bernal.

If the Cards could do that and then get another decent prospect for Contreras plus cash, a prospect that is either an OF or a P, the Cards would have replenished their pipeline entirely. The team would be a couple years out. But, they would at least have elite talent in the system. 2026 would be a tough year to watch. But, my expectations would be they could contend for the playoffs in 2027 and potentially be division favorites by 2028 with a bunch of guys controlled for 5-6 years.

Rumors also have the Dodgers going after K. Tucker/OF'er.