Trade Gorman or not

[60 year Cardinal fan]

With Noot's trade value at it's all time low due to the surgery.

Bloom's going to have to move at least one (or two) of the other left handed bats and wait for Noot to re-hab his trade value hopefully by midseason.

That makes Norman, Donny and Burleson the likely players to get dealt.

Bloom likes players w/Bumbles hitting profile so doubt he'd go (unless a team really wants him and offers something strong).

Norman wouldn't fetch much straight up, perhaps if bundled w/?????

It's been my opinion Donny is Bloom's best trade chip and would bring back a near major league ready prospect or even a #3/4 major league starting pitcher w/control.

Trading Arenado, Donovan and Gorman only makes sense if Bloom feels both Wetherholt and Saggese are ready at 2B and 3B. Unless Bloom can get a power bat for 3B by trade or FA.

I don't see him trading both Donny and Norman (but pretty sure he'll do his best to move NADO).

If NADO and Donny are both dealt, then Gorman will be the OD 3rd baseman.

If NADO and Gorman are dealt, then Donny likely stays and is at 3rd base (mistake IMO as Donny is Bloom's best shot at landing a quality prospect or even a starter w/years of control).

JJW will be at 2nd base.

Saggese isn't an everyday player, nothing more than a back of the bench utility player.

You may be correct, but I would take him over Gorman six days a week and twice on Sunday.

[Adam2]

I wouldn't even begin to try to sugarcoat it - he was bad at 3B in his 400+ innings there last year. The advanced statistics and eye test say the same.

But, if he's going to have a chance to be a contributor, I take him aside right now and tell him to put his other gloves away and just spend this offseason working at 3B to try to get his defense there up to average. Maybe if he can settle in at one spot and focus on that he can improve somewhat before ST.

+1 matt

Like it or not if (when) NADO is traded, then Norman is going to be first up at 3rd base.

The only other option would be Donny if he's not dealt w/Norman at DH (JJW better be inked in at 2nd base).

But then you have to be willing to play I. Hererra in LF or (gulp) behind the plate!

And Bumbles in the OF.

But I think not only NADO but Donny as well will be dealt and Norman is going to be the OD 3rd baseman.

For how long?

Who knows?

How bout those Blues!

Ugly looking now scouty and your Pens beat the c r a p out of em'.

They seem lost right now but I have faith Monty will get them straightened out.

Pens are playing out of their minds. It will all come crashing down so we can get the #1 draft pick to replace Crosby and add to the lineage of superstars every 20 years!

We? so you're on the team?

[scoutyjones2]

I wouldn't even begin to try to sugarcoat it - he was bad at 3B in his 400+ innings there last year. The advanced statistics and eye test say the same.

But, if he's going to have a chance to be a contributor, I take him aside right now and tell him to put his other gloves away and just spend this offseason working at 3B to try to get his defense there up to average. Maybe if he can settle in at one spot and focus on that he can improve somewhat before ST.

+1 matt

Like it or not if (when) NADO is traded, then Norman is going to be first up at 3rd base.

The only other option would be Donny if he's not dealt w/Norman at DH (JJW better be inked in at 2nd base).

But then you have to be willing to play I. Hererra in LF or (gulp) behind the plate!

And Bumbles in the OF.

But I think not only NADO but Donny as well will be dealt and Norman is going to be the OD 3rd baseman.

For how long?

Who knows?

How bout those Blues!

Ugly looking now scouty and your Pens beat the c r a p out of em'.

They seem lost right now but I have faith Monty will get them straightened out.

Pens are playing out of their minds. It will all come crashing down so we can get the #1 draft pick to replace Crosby and add to the lineage of superstars every 20 years!

We? so you're on the team?

Yes, that's what the colloquial "we" means when you're a fan

[imetsatchelpaige]

I wouldn't trade Gorman just to trade him.

He's coming off his worst ML season, so his current trade value might be at an all-time low.

If some team offers a surprisingly good return for him, then you consider dealing him. Otherwise, they are probably better off giving him an opportunity to start at 3B and see if he can get back to his 2023 form.

If he doesn't bounce back, you haven't lost much because you weren't getting anything of value for him now anyway.

I respect your opinion Matt, but that statement is laughable. In each of the games I saw live this year, he was at third and without question, the most hideous third baseman I have EVER seen. I mean HAPLESS-three errors if memory serves.
Explain, please.

[ICCFIM2]

I wouldn't trade Gorman just to trade him.

He's coming off his worst ML season, so his current trade value might be at an all-time low.

If some team offers a surprisingly good return for him, then you consider dealing him. Otherwise, they are probably better off giving him an opportunity to start at 3B and see if he can get back to his 2023 form.

If he doesn't bounce back, you haven't lost much because you weren't getting anything of value for him now anyway.

I respect your opinion Matt, but that statement is laughable. In each of the games I saw live this year, he was at third and without question, the most hideous third baseman I have EVER seen. I mean HAPLESS-three errors if memory serves.
Explain, please.

If you watched Felipe Lopez play 3B for the Cardinals in 2010 after David Freese got hurt, it is hard to imagine anyone playing worse. 9 errors in 58 games and the scoring was generous. He had played well for the Cardinals in a prior stint in 2008. Picking him up to replace Freese seemed like a great move at the time. But his poor fielding led directly to the Cards going 4-12 down the stretch in August and falling out of the playoffs.

Gorman looked bad after playing for Arenado to start. But he settled down and was adequate after the first 15 games or so. I think the team will be better with either Donovan or Wetherholdt at 3B. But if they give Gorman another year, that is fine. The problem is if they trade both Gorman and Donovan, I am not certain what the plan is. They don't have another guy coming through the system. So they need to keep one of them unless they think Baez can be the guy. That seems riskier to me than seeing if Gorman becomes the guy.

[mattmitchl44]

I wouldn't trade Gorman just to trade him.

He's coming off his worst ML season, so his current trade value might be at an all-time low.

If some team offers a surprisingly good return for him, then you consider dealing him. Otherwise, they are probably better off giving him an opportunity to start at 3B and see if he can get back to his 2023 form.

If he doesn't bounce back, you haven't lost much because you weren't getting anything of value for him now anyway.

I respect your opinion Matt, but that statement is laughable. In each of the games I saw live this year, he was at third and without question, the most hideous third baseman I have EVER seen. I mean HAPLESS-three errors if memory serves.
Explain, please.

I elaborated:

I wouldn't even begin to try to sugarcoat it - he was bad at 3B in his 400+ innings there last year. The advanced statistics and eye test say the same.

But, if he's going to have a chance to be a contributor, I take him aside right now and tell him to put his other gloves away and just spend this offseason working at 3B to try to get his defense there up to average. Maybe if he can settle in at one spot and focus on that he can improve somewhat before ST.

[imetsatchelpaige]

I wouldn't trade Gorman just to trade him.

He's coming off his worst ML season, so his current trade value might be at an all-time low.

If some team offers a surprisingly good return for him, then you consider dealing him. Otherwise, they are probably better off giving him an opportunity to start at 3B and see if he can get back to his 2023 form.

If he doesn't bounce back, you haven't lost much because you weren't getting anything of value for him now anyway.

I respect your opinion Matt, but that statement is laughable. In each of the games I saw live this year, he was at third and without question, the most hideous third baseman I have EVER seen. I mean HAPLESS-three errors if memory serves.
Explain, please.

I elaborated:

I wouldn't even begin to try to sugarcoat it - he was bad at 3B in his 400+ innings there last year. The advanced statistics and eye test say the same.

But, if he's going to have a chance to be a contributor, I take him aside right now and tell him to put his other gloves away and just spend this offseason working at 3B to try to get his defense there up to average. Maybe if he can settle in at one spot and focus on that he can improve somewhat before ST.

[Red7]

I wouldn't trade Gorman just to trade him.

He's coming off his worst ML season, so his current trade value might be at an all-time low.

If some team offers a surprisingly good return for him, then you consider dealing him. Otherwise, they are probably better off giving him an opportunity to start at 3B and see if he can get back to his 2023 form.

If he doesn't bounce back, you haven't lost much because you weren't getting anything of value for him now anyway.

I respect your opinion Matt, but that statement is laughable. In each of the games I saw live this year, he was at third and without question, the most hideous third baseman I have EVER seen. I mean HAPLESS-three errors if memory serves.
Explain, please.

Oh please: Heity Cruz and Jedd Gyrko were both worse.

[Vinegar Ben]

Most definitely TRADE GORMAN

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't even begin to try to sugarcoat it - he was bad at 3B in his 400+ innings there last year. The advanced statistics and eye test say the same.

But, if he's going to have a chance to be a contributor, I take him aside right now and tell him to put his other gloves away and just spend this offseason working at 3B to try to get his defense there up to average. Maybe if he can settle in at one spot and focus on that he can improve somewhat before ST.

+1 matt

Like it or not if (when) NADO is traded, then Norman is going to be first up at 3rd base.

The only other option would be Donny if he's not dealt w/Norman at DH (JJW better be inked in at 2nd base).

But then you have to be willing to play I. Hererra in LF or (gulp) behind the plate!

And Bumbles in the OF.

But I think not only NADO but Donny as well will be dealt and Norman is going to be the OD 3rd baseman.

For how long?

Who knows?

How bout those Blues!

Ugly looking now scouty and your Pens beat the c r a p out of em'.

They seem lost right now but I have faith Monty will get them straightened out.

Pens are playing out of their minds. It will all come crashing down so we can get the #1 draft pick to replace Crosby and add to the lineage of superstars every 20 years!

Super Mario---to---Sid the Kid---to ?????

Your Pens' are like the Packers (QB's Favre-Rodgers-Love)) of hockey!

[rockondlouie]

With Noot's trade value at it's all time low due to the surgery.

Bloom's going to have to move at least one (or two) of the other left handed bats and wait for Noot to re-hab his trade value hopefully by midseason.

That makes Norman, Donny and Burleson the likely players to get dealt.

Bloom likes players w/Bumbles hitting profile so doubt he'd go (unless a team really wants him and offers something strong).

Norman wouldn't fetch much straight up, perhaps if bundled w/?????

It's been my opinion Donny is Bloom's best trade chip and would bring back a near major league ready prospect or even a #3/4 major league starting pitcher w/control.

Trading Arenado, Donovan and Gorman only makes sense if Bloom feels both Wetherholt and Saggese are ready at 2B and 3B. Unless Bloom can get a power bat for 3B by trade or FA.

I don't see him trading both Donny and Norman (but pretty sure he'll do his best to move NADO).

If NADO and Donny are both dealt, then Gorman will be the OD 3rd baseman.

If NADO and Gorman are dealt, then Donny likely stays and is at 3rd base (mistake IMO as Donny is Bloom's best shot at landing a quality prospect or even a starter w/years of control).

JJW will be at 2nd base.

Saggese isn't an everyday player, nothing more than a back of the bench utility player.

You may be correct, but I would take him over Gorman six days a week and twice on Sunday.

I think Gorman gets one more shot under new management (Bloom) and then it's adios if he still hasn't figured it out.

[scoutyjones2]

I wouldn't even begin to try to sugarcoat it - he was bad at 3B in his 400+ innings there last year. The advanced statistics and eye test say the same.

But, if he's going to have a chance to be a contributor, I take him aside right now and tell him to put his other gloves away and just spend this offseason working at 3B to try to get his defense there up to average. Maybe if he can settle in at one spot and focus on that he can improve somewhat before ST.

+1 matt

Like it or not if (when) NADO is traded, then Norman is going to be first up at 3rd base.

The only other option would be Donny if he's not dealt w/Norman at DH (JJW better be inked in at 2nd base).

But then you have to be willing to play I. Hererra in LF or (gulp) behind the plate!

And Bumbles in the OF.

But I think not only NADO but Donny as well will be dealt and Norman is going to be the OD 3rd baseman.

For how long?

Who knows?

How bout those Blues!

Ugly looking now scouty and your Pens beat the c r a p out of em'.

They seem lost right now but I have faith Monty will get them straightened out.

Pens are playing out of their minds. It will all come crashing down so we can get the #1 draft pick to replace Crosby and add to the lineage of superstars every 20 years!

Super Mario---to---Sid the Kid---to ?????

Your Pens' are like the Packers (QB's Favre-Rodgers-Love)) of hockey!

Gavin McKenna

[ClassicO]

Although there are conflicting accounts, it appears Gorman still has one option.
He's worth very little in trade value, so send him and Walker down until they prove they can hit and defend much better.

[rockondlouie]

I wouldn't even begin to try to sugarcoat it - he was bad at 3B in his 400+ innings there last year. The advanced statistics and eye test say the same.

But, if he's going to have a chance to be a contributor, I take him aside right now and tell him to put his other gloves away and just spend this offseason working at 3B to try to get his defense there up to average. Maybe if he can settle in at one spot and focus on that he can improve somewhat before ST.

+1 matt

Like it or not if (when) NADO is traded, then Norman is going to be first up at 3rd base.

The only other option would be Donny if he's not dealt w/Norman at DH (JJW better be inked in at 2nd base).

But then you have to be willing to play I. Hererra in LF or (gulp) behind the plate!

And Bumbles in the OF.

But I think not only NADO but Donny as well will be dealt and Norman is going to be the OD 3rd baseman.

For how long?

Who knows?

How bout those Blues!

Ugly looking now scouty and your Pens beat the c r a p out of em'.

They seem lost right now but I have faith Monty will get them straightened out.

Pens are playing out of their minds. It will all come crashing down so we can get the #1 draft pick to replace Crosby and add to the lineage of superstars every 20 years!

Super Mario---to---Sid the Kid---to ?????

Your Pens' are like the Packers (QB's Favre-Rodgers-Love)) of hockey!

Gavin McKenna

The way my Blues are going he could end up here.

[imetsatchelpaige]

I wouldn't trade Gorman just to trade him.

He's coming off his worst ML season, so his current trade value might be at an all-time low.

If some team offers a surprisingly good return for him, then you consider dealing him. Otherwise, they are probably better off giving him an opportunity to start at 3B and see if he can get back to his 2023 form.

If he doesn't bounce back, you haven't lost much because you weren't getting anything of value for him now anyway.

I respect your opinion Matt, but that statement is laughable. In each of the games I saw live this year, he was at third and without question, the most hideous third baseman I have EVER seen. I mean HAPLESS-three errors if memory serves.
Explain, please.

Oh please: Heity Cruz and Jedd Gyrko were both worse.

Debatable.
Gyrko and Gorman are about equal.
Gorman OPS+ 99/.977F%
Gyrko OPS+ 101/.979 F%
They are essentially the same player.

[Talkin' Baseball]

I wouldn't trade Gorman just to trade him.

He's coming off his worst ML season, so his current trade value might be at an all-time low.

If some team offers a surprisingly good return for him, then you consider dealing him. Otherwise, they are probably better off giving him an opportunity to start at 3B and see if he can get back to his 2023 form.

If he doesn't bounce back, you haven't lost much because you weren't getting anything of value for him now anyway.

I respect your opinion Matt, but that statement is laughable. In each of the games I saw live this year, he was at third and without question, the most hideous third baseman I have EVER seen. I mean HAPLESS-three errors if memory serves.
Explain, please.

Oh please: Heity Cruz and Jedd Gyrko were both worse.

Debatable.
Gyrko and Gorman are about equal.
Gorman OPS+ 99/.977F%
Gyrko OPS+ 101/.979 F%
They are essentially the same player.

And how often have we missed Jedd?