ClassicO wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 10:08 am
He had a .597 OPS in his time at AAA. His MLB career slash is .206/.283/.293/.576. He's the worst-hitting CF in baseball.
His WAR is a generous 1.7 only because of his position, as CFs get a huge boost because of the position. Frickin' Bader had almost twice his WAR.
A team without hitting can't afford this guy, despite his elite defense.
If you wish to keep him, please state your reasoning.
He, Gorman, and Walker all had their runway. Send them down until they prove they can hit - and in Walker and Gorman's case - play adequate defense. (None of them has any trade value.)
I recently found out Gorman is out of options CO.
He's either here on OD 2026 or dealt this offseason.
But agree about Walker, 100% has to be at AAA all season.
No issue w/VSII starting there either as long as there's a better option in CF (and I'm not sold Church is any better a hitter).
Good to know about Gorman. I was a big fan of his -- but, like Walker, he's shown me little. Their defense has been astoundingly bad.
Same here, I'm done w/Walker already.
C. Bloom is going to weed out the oversupply of LHHers.
If NADO is still here, then it could be Gorman.
Maybe even if NADO is gone and Donny is still here if they want to play Donny at 3rd base over Gorman.
But if NADO and Donny are dealt, then we may be stuck w/Gorman at 3rd base (no way I want Sagesse starting there or anywhere for that matter).
If he's still here, then let's hope J. Oquendo can work some spring magic and coach Gorman up to at least league average defensively at 3rd.
I'm good with trading anybody. Gorman at 3b (or anywhere on the dirt) would be a nightmare. He's a platoon DH at best.
Only player I'm not dealing is I. Hererra (even if he's just our DH), everybody else is fair game.
Agreed on Norman, he's a disaster at 3rd base.
A disaster at the plate also
Has certainly been a major disappointment.
But we saw in 2023 the raw power (27 HR) he possesses, something sorely lacking throughout the organization sans I. Hererra.
But this could be his make or break season, could also be dealt this winter for the right return.
The real disaster at the plate is Walker, AAA all season for him.
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 13:49 pm
Scott increased his batting average in one season from .179 to .216 OBP from .219 to .305 slugging from .283 to .296 OPS from .502 to .601 since the cardinals aren’t going to contend next season I say give him a third year see if he can increase the numbers similarly. The more pressing need is a power hitting corner infielder and or outfielder that’s who they need to be going after.
Reading over your post more closely, especially the listed “improvement” stats, I’m more convinced he doesn’t belong in the major leagues.
I don’t care if they’re rebuilding or not, they need to find a replacement until he proves he can hit at AAA.
I understand the concept of letting players try to improve their skills in the majors, but there have to be guardrails. An “improved” .296 slugging is not within those guardrails.
Why is it once they invest in a player and put him on a major league roster, that is so hard to get them off?
PadsFS07 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 10:43 am
I really wanted them to sign Bader to be the RH complement veteran outfielder this offseason, but he’s played so well for Philly that he’s priced out of the cards budget
Bader had a
.650
.622
.657 OPS
prior to 2025.
Some people have penciled in Nootbaar, Burleson, Walker, Donovan, Herrera in
this outfield.
'
Any such combination will lack speed and gloves that their bats don't overcome.
I'd prefer to overpay in trade chips or money for production than to overpay for minimal
differences.
Bader made over $6 million, coming off a career year and looking for his last substantial
bite of the apple. We should aim higher or go with what is in the system. Preferably a trade.
LAA may have a couple.
Bryan Torres is already in the organization as a speedy late-bloomer who can play CF and lead off. High batting average, high walk rate, low K rate. He’s one of those guys who has had to earn his way in pro ball and seems to have found something that works.
pitchingandefense wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 14:13 pm
Bryan Torres is already in the organization as a speedy late-bloomer who can play CF and lead off. High batting average, high walk rate, low K rate. He’s one of those guys who has had to earn his way in pro ball and seems to have found something that works.
I doubt VS has a stranglehold on the position over
anyone. Torres, Baez, or Church.
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 13:49 pm
Scott increased his batting average in one season from .179 to .216 OBP from .219 to .305 slugging from .283 to .296 OPS from .502 to .601 since the cardinals aren’t going to contend next season I say give him a third year see if he can increase the numbers similarly. The more pressing need is a power hitting corner infielder and or outfielder that’s who they need to be going after.
Reading over your post more closely, especially the listed “improvement” stats, I’m more convinced he doesn’t belong in the major leagues.
I don’t care if they’re rebuilding or not, they need to find a replacement until he proves he can hit at AAA.
I understand the concept of letting players try to improve their skills in the majors, but there have to be guardrails. An “improved” .296 slugging is not within those guardrails.
Why is it once they invest in a player and put him on a major league roster, that is so hard to get them off?
Because people are worried about a ninth place hitting good defensive center fielder when the cardinals have zero middle of the order bats no good 3,4 or 5 hitter and people are complaining about must upgrade centerfield? I look at it realistically not pipe dream. They aren’t going to get a good hitting good defensive center fielder and solid 3,4,5 bats it’s not happening. They have Baez coming and Torres, church and Scott who can be a stop gap until then and maybe one of them emerges. He needs to worry about the middle of the order instead of a ninth place hitting center fielder
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 10:18 am
Who plays CF? Not stumping for Argo. Just asking.
Argo needs to practice bunting and slash hitting for most of his off-season hitting practice.
Sign Luis Robert Jr., on a one year deal if the Chisox decline his option. Play him in CF until Scott Jr. proves he can bunt and hit oppo singles in Memphis. Then Robert Jr. can play in LF or RF for the rest of the season or until he is traded.
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 10:18 am
Who plays CF? Not stumping for Argo. Just asking.
Argo needs to practice bunting and slash hitting for most of his off-season hitting practice.
Sign Luis Robert Jr., on a one year deal if the Chisox decline his option. Play him in CF until Scott Jr. proves he can bunt and hit oppo singles in Memphis. Then Robert Jr. can play in LF or RF for the rest of the season or until he is traded.
Robert sucks why should they bring in players that suck when they have limited money to spend
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 10:18 am
Who plays CF? Not stumping for Argo. Just asking.
Argo needs to practice bunting and slash hitting for most of his off-season hitting practice.
Sign Luis Robert Jr., on a one year deal if the Chisox decline his option. Play him in CF until Scott Jr. proves he can bunt and hit oppo singles in Memphis. Then Robert Jr. can play in LF or RF for the rest of the season or until he is traded.
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 13:49 pm
Scott increased his batting average in one season from .179 to .216 OBP from .219 to .305 slugging from .283 to .296 OPS from .502 to .601 since the cardinals aren’t going to contend next season I say give him a third year see if he can increase the numbers similarly. The more pressing need is a power hitting corner infielder and or outfielder that’s who they need to be going after.
Reading over your post more closely, especially the listed “improvement” stats, I’m more convinced he doesn’t belong in the major leagues.
I don’t care if they’re rebuilding or not, they need to find a replacement until he proves he can hit at AAA.
I understand the concept of letting players try to improve their skills in the majors, but there have to be guardrails. An “improved” .296 slugging is not within those guardrails.
Why is it once they invest in a player and put him on a major league roster, that is so hard to get them off?
Because people are worried about a ninth place hitting good defensive center fielder when the cardinals have zero middle of the order bats no good 3,4 or 5 hitter and people are complaining about must upgrade centerfield? I look at it realistically not pipe dream. They aren’t going to get a good hitting good defensive center fielder and solid 3,4,5 bats it’s not happening. They have Baez coming and Torres, church and Scott who can be a stop gap until then and maybe one of them emerges. He needs to worry about the middle of the order instead of a ninth place hitting center fielder
I agree that they need better players at multiple spots. But that doesn't mean you don't try to improve --- where you can. It doesn't take much to improve on VSII's offense. I haven't heard much from others about where they can realistically improve other positions, unless you believe Melville that they can trade 4 lousy players for a mythical All-Star corner outfielder.
I'd be joyous if they can improve the entire OF, 3b and SPs.
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 10:18 am
Who plays CF? Not stumping for Argo. Just asking.
Argo needs to practice bunting and slash hitting for most of his off-season hitting practice.
Sign Luis Robert Jr., on a one year deal if the Chisox decline his option. Play him in CF until Scott Jr. proves he can bunt and hit oppo singles in Memphis. Then Robert Jr. can play in LF or RF for the rest of the season or until he is traded.
Robert sucks why should they bring in players that suck when they have limited money to spend
If he signs on a one year deal he will be super motivated to produce as he did in 2023 when he slugged 38 HR and drove in 80 runs. He is a RHH and is fast - stole 33 bases last year, even though he missed 50 games. He is only 28 years old. His OPS has been over .850 2 of his 5 seasons. He is not going to cost a huge amount to sign for one year, and he could be traded at the deadline to a contender if he is playing well
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 13:49 pm
Scott increased his batting average in one season from .179 to .216 OBP from .219 to .305 slugging from .283 to .296 OPS from .502 to .601 since the cardinals aren’t going to contend next season I say give him a third year see if he can increase the numbers similarly. The more pressing need is a power hitting corner infielder and or outfielder that’s who they need to be going after.
Reading over your post more closely, especially the listed “improvement” stats, I’m more convinced he doesn’t belong in the major leagues.
I don’t care if they’re rebuilding or not, they need to find a replacement until he proves he can hit at AAA.
I understand the concept of letting players try to improve their skills in the majors, but there have to be guardrails. An “improved” .296 slugging is not within those guardrails.
Why is it once they invest in a player and put him on a major league roster, that is so hard to get them off?
Because people are worried about a ninth place hitting good defensive center fielder when the cardinals have zero middle of the order bats no good 3,4 or 5 hitter and people are complaining about must upgrade centerfield? I look at it realistically not pipe dream. They aren’t going to get a good hitting good defensive center fielder and solid 3,4,5 bats it’s not happening. They have Baez coming and Torres, church and Scott who can be a stop gap until then and maybe one of them emerges. He needs to worry about the middle of the order instead of a ninth place hitting center fielder
I agree that they need better players at multiple spots. But that doesn't mean you don't try to improve --- where you can. It doesn't take much to improve on VSII's offense. I haven't heard much from others about where they can realistically improve other positions, unless you believe Melville that they can trade 4 lousy players for a mythical All-Star corner outfielder.
I'd be joyous if they can improve the entire OF, 3b and SPs.
I think you have to prioritize first. Fix corner infield and corner outfield first and middle of the order and rotation. Center field should be low on the priority list and then after next season if no one has emerged as a center fielder look for an upgrade there. A good hitting good hitting center fielder is going to cost a lost in the prospect department prospects the cardinals don’t have to spend
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 13:49 pm
Scott increased his batting average in one season from .179 to .216 OBP from .219 to .305 slugging from .283 to .296 OPS from .502 to .601 since the cardinals aren’t going to contend next season I say give him a third year see if he can increase the numbers similarly. The more pressing need is a power hitting corner infielder and or outfielder that’s who they need to be going after.
Reading over your post more closely, especially the listed “improvement” stats, I’m more convinced he doesn’t belong in the major leagues.
I don’t care if they’re rebuilding or not, they need to find a replacement until he proves he can hit at AAA.
I understand the concept of letting players try to improve their skills in the majors, but there have to be guardrails. An “improved” .296 slugging is not within those guardrails.
Why is it once they invest in a player and put him on a major league roster, that is so hard to get them off?
Because people are worried about a ninth place hitting good defensive center fielder when the cardinals have zero middle of the order bats no good 3,4 or 5 hitter and people are complaining about must upgrade centerfield? I look at it realistically not pipe dream. They aren’t going to get a good hitting good defensive center fielder and solid 3,4,5 bats it’s not happening. They have Baez coming and Torres, church and Scott who can be a stop gap until then and maybe one of them emerges. He needs to worry about the middle of the order instead of a ninth place hitting center fielder
I agree that they need better players at multiple spots. But that doesn't mean you don't try to improve --- where you can. It doesn't take much to improve on VSII's offense. I haven't heard much from others about where they can realistically improve other positions, unless you believe Melville that they can trade 4 lousy players for a mythical All-Star corner outfielder.
I'd be joyous if they can improve the entire OF, 3b and SPs.
I think you have to prioritize first. Fix corner infield and corner outfield first and middle of the order and rotation. Center field should be low on the priority list and then after next season if no one has emerged as a center fielder look for an upgrade there. A good hitting good hitting center fielder is going to cost a lost in the prospect department prospects the cardinals don’t have to spend
Or ... fix what you CAN fix at all times.
Don't get fixated on anyone being the starter if they can improve the team. I don't see this team being a contender without many changes, and I don't care where they start. I know VSII can't hit, and won't hit.
Ozziesfan41 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 13:49 pm
Scott increased his batting average in one season from .179 to .216 OBP from .219 to .305 slugging from .283 to .296 OPS from .502 to .601 since the cardinals aren’t going to contend next season I say give him a third year see if he can increase the numbers similarly. The more pressing need is a power hitting corner infielder and or outfielder that’s who they need to be going after.
Reading over your post more closely, especially the listed “improvement” stats, I’m more convinced he doesn’t belong in the major leagues.
I don’t care if they’re rebuilding or not, they need to find a replacement until he proves he can hit at AAA.
I understand the concept of letting players try to improve their skills in the majors, but there have to be guardrails. An “improved” .296 slugging is not within those guardrails.
Why is it once they invest in a player and put him on a major league roster, that is so hard to get them off?
Because people are worried about a ninth place hitting good defensive center fielder when the cardinals have zero middle of the order bats no good 3,4 or 5 hitter and people are complaining about must upgrade centerfield? I look at it realistically not pipe dream. They aren’t going to get a good hitting good defensive center fielder and solid 3,4,5 bats it’s not happening. They have Baez coming and Torres, church and Scott who can be a stop gap until then and maybe one of them emerges. He needs to worry about the middle of the order instead of a ninth place hitting center fielder
I agree that they need better players at multiple spots. But that doesn't mean you don't try to improve --- where you can. It doesn't take much to improve on VSII's offense. I haven't heard much from others about where they can realistically improve other positions, unless you believe Melville that they can trade 4 lousy players for a mythical All-Star corner outfielder.
I'd be joyous if they can improve the entire OF, 3b and SPs.
I think you have to prioritize first. Fix corner infield and corner outfield first and middle of the order and rotation. Center field should be low on the priority list and then after next season if no one has emerged as a center fielder look for an upgrade there. A good hitting good hitting center fielder is going to cost a lost in the prospect department prospects the cardinals don’t have to spend
Or ... fix what you CAN fix at all times.
Don't get fixated on anyone being the starter if they can improve the team. I don't see this team being a contender without many changes, and I don't care where they start. I know VSII can't hit, and won't hit.
Well I disagree. I say try to fix the biggest glaring problems first upgrading the ninth place hitter isn’t a priority to me when you have a terrible 3,4,5,6,7,8 hitter
scoutyjones2 wrote: ↑04 Oct 2025 10:18 am
Who plays CF? Not stumping for Argo. Just asking.
Argo needs to practice bunting and slash hitting for most of his off-season hitting practice.
Sign Luis Robert Jr., on a one year deal if the Chisox decline his option. Play him in CF until Scott Jr. proves he can bunt and hit oppo singles in Memphis. Then Robert Jr. can play in LF or RF for the rest of the season or until he is traded.
LoL.
No thank you. He's worse than Argo.
LOL . Robert Jr. hit 38 HR in '23 and stole 33 bases this year in only 110 games.
