What is the true Herrera

[imadangman]

Maybe Herrera is the first guy to move on from, if you find a team that values him in a trade.

But the question remains, where will the Cardinals find their right-handed hitters?

Who here thinks Blaze Jordan would hit better than Herrera in 2026. Should the Cardinals plan on him coming north with a good ST? (I see he's sucked at Memphis so far, what's the deal?)

I don’t tho k he would

With the way Herrera has heated up since I made this thread, I'm a lot more encouraged that he might continue to improve overtime. Initially I was worried that his power streak in April was a bit of a floozy. Herrera could be a consistent hitter with enough power to justify a roster spot as a primary DH/1B/LF. The offense does have to be pretty good to justify that, as we know. I brought up the Jose Martinez example because once he started to struggle, it didn't take much struggling before he was suddenly a negative value player all things considered.

I still like Blaze Jordan. I think he is the best thing we have in house for maybe who could become the heir apparent to Contreras (34 next season) at 1B over the next 1-2 years.

A lot of people thought because he didn’t hit home runs immediately he didn’t have power but he’s always had raw power. He said He’s went to a heavier bat and started looking for pitches to ambush at certain times in the count to try to drive for power and if he doesn’t hit it then he goes back to the normal approach of just trying to get it in play. The reason I like him is unlike just about every cardinals hitter he has slumps when pitchers adjust to him but he doesn’t let it derail him he adjusts back

Good information thank you. I would really enjoy if Herrera could become like a .285 .380 .495 hitter with maybe 22-25 homers and about 100 rbi. That would be highly valuable among all the lefties in our lineup.

[BrummerStealsHome]

Good thread started by imadangman.

Personally, I think Herrera is a keeper for the 2026 season. As some elements go and some are kept, let's see where he fits in.

It looks like they're not going to start Herrera at catcher. The Cardinals need a starting catcher. Neither Pages nor Pozo are the answer. Crooks has struggled mightily. That's disappointing but he should be able to come to spring training with a fresh start at making the bigs. I know some think it's all transitional until Bernal gets here, but until he makes it here he's still the shiny penny. Crooks, it's your time, boy.

[VegasVinny]

Contending for a division title is not a realistic possibility next year, so the team should absolutely use 2026 as a year to see what he can do. I think he's one of the highest-ceiling bats on the ML roster right now.

[bccardsfan]

Good thread started by imadangman.

Personally, I think Herrera is a keeper for the 2026 season. As some elements go and some are kept, let's see where he fits in.

It looks like they're not going to start Herrera at catcher. The Cardinals need a starting catcher. Neither Pages nor Pozo are the answer. Crooks has struggled mightily. That's disappointing but he should be able to come to spring training with a fresh start at making the bigs. I know some think it's all transitional until Bernal gets here, but until he makes it here he's still the shiny penny. Crooks, it's your time, boy.

Agreed. IH will not be their catcher, but he is arguably the best hitter in the lineup except when WC is on a hot streak (if he is here next season). We have a lineup full of guys who should hit 5,6 or 7 in a GOOD lineup, but that is the way it is. WC is who he is. IH may yet improve.

[JuanAgosto]

Hes a solid bat that looks better next to the rest of this lineup. This team still needs a legit power bat. Nobody on the current roster fits that description.

CardsTalk has always had an unusual contingent always wanting to trade away our best players. Yes, sometimes you have to trade your good players for good return, but it seems that some folks here want us to be the Pirates. I don't want to be a Pirate.

When evaluating batting these days, one must first calibrate expectations to conditions. MLB is experiencing a hitting trough. The MLB batting average is .246 and will mark the 6th season in a row in the .240s. Hitting has been on a slow decline since the most reacent peak of .270 only 25 years ago in 2000. A guy hitting .265 in 2000 was performing below average. A guy hitting .265 now is among the league's better hitters. At .284, Herrera would be 8th in the NL in hitting if he qualified with number of ABs.

Im not advocating trading Herrera. Just saying he's not a moto bat. Hes a #2, #6, #7 bat on a good team. But compared to this lineup, he looks like a #3, 4, or 5 hitter.

[Cusecards]

Hes a solid bat that looks better next to the rest of this lineup. This team still needs a legit power bat. Nobody on the current roster fits that description.

CardsTalk has always had an unusual contingent always wanting to trade away our best players. Yes, sometimes you have to trade your good players for good return, but it seems that some folks here want us to be the Pirates. I don't want to be a Pirate.

When evaluating batting these days, one must first calibrate expectations to conditions. MLB is experiencing a hitting trough. The MLB batting average is .246 and will mark the 6th season in a row in the .240s. Hitting has been on a slow decline since the most reacent peak of .270 only 25 years ago in 2000. A guy hitting .265 in 2000 was performing below average. A guy hitting .265 now is among the league's better hitters. At .284, Herrera would be 8th in the NL in hitting if he qualified with number of ABs.

Im not advocating trading Herrera. Just saying he's not a moto bat. Hes a #2, #6, #7 bat on a good team. But compared to this lineup, he looks like a #3, 4, or 5 hitter.

Agree
Plus he’ll make peanuts next season and then have 3 more years of Arb control.
I could see a lot of teams trying to steal him from the Cards due to the above!
If you get an offer you can’t refuse you obviously deal him.
Otherwise....let him find his niche(in the field) for 2026.

[ClassicO]

What is the true Herrera? A very good player.

Leads the team in:

HR per AB - close to 5% of ABs leads Contreras (.041) and Burly (.037) by a good margin
RBI per AB - just ahead of WC and well ahead of Burly
Batting average

One issue is that he doesn't hit many doubles.

[imadangman]

What is the true Herrera? A very good player.

Leads the team in:

HR per AB - close to 5% of ABs leads Contreras (.041) and Burly (.037) by a good margin
RBI per AB - just ahead of WC and well ahead of Burly
Batting average

One issue is that he doesn't hit many doubles.

Maybe he will hit more doubles as time goes on

[ClassicO]

What is the true Herrera? A very good player.

Leads the team in:

HR per AB - close to 5% of ABs leads Contreras (.041) and Burly (.037) by a good margin
RBI per AB - just ahead of WC and well ahead of Burly
Batting average

One issue is that he doesn't hit many doubles.

Maybe he will hit more doubles as time goes on

Good to hear from you, man. Yeah, he has only 629 career MLB ABs. His OPS improved this year. He's the least of my player worries (#1 is Walker, #2 is Gorman and #3 is VSII). Scott can't hit, never has, and never will, but they may have replacements for him.

[redbirdfan51]

Herrera has proven his value as a hitter. The question is whether he is a career DH, catcher, Of, or even 1B. It will be itersting on how he fits in 2026

[imadangman]

What is the true Herrera? A very good player.

Leads the team in:

HR per AB - close to 5% of ABs leads Contreras (.041) and Burly (.037) by a good margin
RBI per AB - just ahead of WC and well ahead of Burly
Batting average

One issue is that he doesn't hit many doubles.

Maybe he will hit more doubles as time goes on

Good to hear from you, man. Yeah, he has only 629 career MLB ABs. His OPS improved this year. He's the least of my player worries (#1 is Walker, #2 is Gorman and #3 is VSII). Scott can't hit, never has, and never will, but they may have replacements for him.

Well Scott somehow still has a bunch of steals (maybe due to a decent walk rate) despite his low hitting ability. Scott probably will not be a good hitter like you say outside of a abnormal season. But he is still tied for 2nd in bWar among positon players for us. So he should play again next year. It seems he is good enough to bat 9th and be on base for Donovan or Wetherholt or whoever it may be coming up to the plate with him on 1st base (when he gets on 1st base).

Baez gives me confidence that we will have a backup plan for Walker if he doesn't work out.

[JuanAgosto]

Hes a solid bat that looks better next to the rest of this lineup. This team still needs a legit power bat. Nobody on the current roster fits that description.

CardsTalk has always had an unusual contingent always wanting to trade away our best players. Yes, sometimes you have to trade your good players for good return, but it seems that some folks here want us to be the Pirates. I don't want to be a Pirate.

When evaluating batting these days, one must first calibrate expectations to conditions. MLB is experiencing a hitting trough. The MLB batting average is .246 and will mark the 6th season in a row in the .240s. Hitting has been on a slow decline since the most reacent peak of .270 only 25 years ago in 2000. A guy hitting .265 in 2000 was performing below average. A guy hitting .265 now is among the league's better hitters. At .284, Herrera would be 8th in the NL in hitting if he qualified with number of ABs.

Im not advocating trading Herrera. Just saying he's not a moto bat. Hes a #2, #6, #7 bat on a good team. But compared to this lineup, he looks like a #3, 4, or 5 hitter.

Agree
Plus he’ll make peanuts next season and then have 3 more years of Arb control.
I could see a lot of teams trying to steal him from the Cards due to the above!
If you get an offer you can’t refuse you obviously deal him.
Otherwise....let him find his niche(in the field) for 2026.

Agreed. Listen on anybody but be selective on deals.

[Cusecards]

Hes a solid bat that looks better next to the rest of this lineup. This team still needs a legit power bat. Nobody on the current roster fits that description.

CardsTalk has always had an unusual contingent always wanting to trade away our best players. Yes, sometimes you have to trade your good players for good return, but it seems that some folks here want us to be the Pirates. I don't want to be a Pirate.

When evaluating batting these days, one must first calibrate expectations to conditions. MLB is experiencing a hitting trough. The MLB batting average is .246 and will mark the 6th season in a row in the .240s. Hitting has been on a slow decline since the most reacent peak of .270 only 25 years ago in 2000. A guy hitting .265 in 2000 was performing below average. A guy hitting .265 now is among the league's better hitters. At .284, Herrera would be 8th in the NL in hitting if he qualified with number of ABs.

Im not advocating trading Herrera. Just saying he's not a moto bat. Hes a #2, #6, #7 bat on a good team. But compared to this lineup, he looks like a #3, 4, or 5 hitter.

Agree
Plus he’ll make peanuts next season and then have 3 more years of Arb control.
I could see a lot of teams trying to steal him from the Cards due to the above!
If you get an offer you can’t refuse you obviously deal him.
Otherwise....let him find his niche(in the field) for 2026.

Agreed. Listen on anybody but be selective on deals.

Yes
You always “listen” when approached.

[BrummerStealsHome]

Good thread started by imadangman.

Personally, I think Herrera is a keeper for the 2026 season. As some elements go and some are kept, let's see where he fits in.

It looks like they're not going to start Herrera at catcher. The Cardinals need a starting catcher. Neither Pages nor Pozo are the answer. Crooks has struggled mightily. That's disappointing but he should be able to come to spring training with a fresh start at making the bigs. I know some think it's all transitional until Bernal gets here, but until he makes it here he's still the shiny penny. Crooks, it's your time, boy.

Agreed. IH will not be their catcher, but he is arguably the best hitter in the lineup except when WC is on a hot streak (if he is here next season). We have a lineup full of guys who should hit 5,6 or 7 in a GOOD lineup, but that is the way it is. WC is who he is. IH may yet improve.

That calls to mind a peripheral issue, the lack of a good leadoff hitter. The Cardinals haven't had a good bat setting the table at the top of the order for a long time. I suppose I'm spoiled. I grew up with Lou Brock leading off every night, then came a decade of Whiteyball who emphasized a leadoff man getting on base. Lonnie Smith then Vince Coleman. TLR had a revolving door there, but he usually made them serviceable leadoff men.

[imetsatchelpaige]

That's out DH next season and he's only going to get better.

This

[Hoosier59]

What is the true Herrera? A very good player.

Leads the team in:

HR per AB - close to 5% of ABs leads Contreras (.041) and Burly (.037) by a good margin
RBI per AB - just ahead of WC and well ahead of Burly
Batting average

One issue is that he doesn't hit many doubles.

Maybe he will hit more doubles as time goes on

Good to hear from you, man. Yeah, he has only 629 career MLB ABs. His OPS improved this year. He's the least of my player worries (#1 is Walker, #2 is Gorman and #3 is VSII). Scott can't hit, never has, and never will, but they may have replacements for him.

Well Scott somehow still has a bunch of steals (maybe due to a decent walk rate) despite his low hitting ability. Scott probably will not be a good hitter like you say outside of a abnormal season. But he is still tied for 2nd in bWar among positon players for us. So he should play again next year. It seems he is good enough to bat 9th and be on base for Donovan or Wetherholt or whoever it may be coming up to the plate with him on 1st base (when he gets on 1st base).

Baez gives me confidence that we will have a backup plan for Walker if he doesn't work out.

As I stated in another post, Victor has to value OB%, and scoring runs above all else offensively. Until he does, if ever, he’ll never be of much value as a hitter. Like you said, a #9 batter. Right now, he is a terrible bunter, tries to pull everything, and swings as hard as he can on every swing. He needs to learn and actually want to be a good bunter, and become more of a slap hitter to utilize his speed. He has enough power to keep pitchers and outfielders honest when defending him, but not try and be a power hitter all the time.
I have my doubts he’ll ever accept this philosophy. It also doesn’t appear that the organization is pushing toward this either.