Future for this team

[casey1024]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

[Bomber1]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

Gray won’t be here in 2027. The Cardinals will pay the buyout.
I think Nootbaar needs to go.
I hope Scott or Church can hit enough to nail down CF but I’m not too confident.

This team is several years away but hopefully on the right track.

[rockondlouie]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

Gray is only signed for 2026.

And I'd be willing to bet JJW is ticketed for 2nd base, Donny could be C. Bloom's best trade chip.

[82birds]

Scott needs to go to some academy or something this winter and learn how to bunt.
Bunt for hours on end if he has to.

[casey1024]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

Gray won’t be here in 2027. The Cardinals will pay the buyout.
I think Nootbaar needs to go.
I hope Scott or Church can hit enough to nail down CF but I’m not too confident.

This team is several years away but hopefully on the right track.

You sir are correct! I was relying on a 69 year old memory......not a good idea

[scoutyjones2]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

Liberatore?

[hugeCardfan]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

Gray is only signed for 2026.

And I'd be willing to bet JJW is ticketed for 2nd base, Donny could be C. Bloom's best trade chip.

Actually Gray has an option for '27. He'll have to pitch awfully well in '26 for the Cards to pick him up.

casey. I like your comments for the most part. You are clearly paying attention to the farm. I'm OK with Scott as #4 outfielder if he can hit better in '26. But, like you, I think Church takes hold of CF and runs with it next year. I don't see Nootbaar in St Louis much longer. Good kid but just not good enough player; and I used to be a fan. Herrera is only a DH IMO. I too see a future at 1B for Burleson. Not sure what that means for Contreras. At some point next year I hope Baez arrives. Davis may need another year.

I'm open to how the Crooks/Bernal thing plays out. Love Bernal, but, the season got too long for him this year.

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year. I really hope that Hjerpe steps in 2d half next year. I kinda think that they need to look at Leahy to start. He has 4 effective pitches and the rotation needs help. Not sure how Pallante figures in...but, they should plan around him.

I'd like to see a veteran rotation foray much like last year's Gibson/Lynne move. I would prefer a FA hunt for a #1 but don't see them doing that.

[rockondlouie]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

Gray is only signed for 2026.

And I'd be willing to bet JJW is ticketed for 2nd base, Donny could be C. Bloom's best trade chip.

Actually Gray has an option for '27. He'll have to pitch awfully well in '26 for the Cards to pick him up.

casey. I like your comments for the most part. You are clearly paying attention to the farm. I'm OK with Scott as #4 outfielder if he can hit better in '26. But, like you, I think Church takes hold of CF and runs with it next year. I don't see Nootbaar in St Louis much longer. Good kid but just not good enough player; and I used to be a fan. Herrera is only a DH IMO. I too see a future at 1B for Burleson. Not sure what that means for Contreras. At some point next year I hope Baez arrives. Davis may need another year.

I'm open to how the Crooks/Bernal thing plays out. Love Bernal, but, the season got too long for him this year.

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year. I really hope that Hjerpe steps in 2d half next year. I kinda think that they need to look at Leahy to start. He has 4 effective pitches and the rotation needs help. Not sure how Pallante figures in...but, they should plan around him.

I'd like to see a veteran rotation foray much like last year's Gibson/Lynne move. I would prefer a FA hunt for a #1 but don't see them doing that.

Gray does indeed have a CLUB 2027 option that we all know is already 100% declined by BDWJr.

[cardstatman]

My thoughts on Gray.

He will cost the Cards $40M in 2026. However, that is the just the payback for him costing only $10M in 2024. Think of it as $15M deferred from 2024 to 2026. 2024 $10M, 2025 $25M, 2026 $40M, 2027 $25M option.

After 2026, the Cards will either buy him out for $5M or pay him $30M to play in 2027. So effectively it costs them $25M to keep him another year.

If he pitches poorly or just average, the Cardinals will spend the $5M to buy him out.
If he pitches well, the Cardinals can choose to pick up his option for an additional $25M. However, there is a catch. Gray can then opt out!

If he pitches well, his agent will likely advise him to opt out and look for another 2 or 3 year deal on the free agent market at age 37.

So, basically, I don't expect him to be back in 2027.

[CardsBest]

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year.

Don’t count on Libby being better next year. There is a better chance that he regresses next year. He had his most innings pitched and wore down plus the hitters now have more of a book on him and how he likes to attack as a starter. This year he had 9.5 H/9 with 7K/9. He wasn’t missing a lot of bats and had dips in velocity. You shouldn’t expect much out of Liberatore next year. If he gives you solid #4 production and makes all his starts you would be lucky.

[hugeCardfan]

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year.

Don’t count on Libby being better next year. There is a better chance that he regresses next year. He had his most innings pitched and wore down plus the hitters now have more of a book on him and how he likes to attack as a starter. This year he had 9.5 H/9 with 7K/9. He wasn’t missing a lot of bats and had dips in velocity. You shouldn’t expect much out of Liberatore next year. If he gives you solid #4 production and makes all his starts you would be lucky.

Man, some of you guys couldn't say anything positive about this team if your lives depended on it. Agree to disagree. He began the year attacking the hitter. He only had 2 BB's in his first 32 innings. As the season progressed that deteriorated. Let's see if he can redress that over the winter and come back ready to throw strikes. I think he'll be better.

[11WSChamps]

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year.

Don’t count on Libby being better next year. There is a better chance that he regresses next year. He had his most innings pitched and wore down plus the hitters now have more of a book on him and how he likes to attack as a starter. This year he had 9.5 H/9 with 7K/9. He wasn’t missing a lot of bats and had dips in velocity. You shouldn’t expect much out of Liberatore next year. If he gives you solid #4 production and makes all his starts you would be lucky.

Man, some of you guys couldn't say anything positive about this team if your lives depended on it. Agree to disagree. He began the year attacking the hitter. He only had 2 BB's in his first 32 innings. As the season progressed that deteriorated. Let's see if he can redress that over the winter and come back ready to throw strikes. I think he'll be better.

I don't know why the ballclub wouldn't expect better things from Liberatore next season.

He'll have a full off season to condition as a starter and mentally will know exactly what his role will be and expectations that go with it.

Frankly if Liberatore isn't going to be a potential 2 or at least a three in the rotation then we've really got problems.

[riff raff]

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year.

Don’t count on Libby being better next year. There is a better chance that he regresses next year. He had his most innings pitched and wore down plus the hitters now have more of a book on him and how he likes to attack as a starter. This year he had 9.5 H/9 with 7K/9. He wasn’t missing a lot of bats and had dips in velocity. You shouldn’t expect much out of Liberatore next year. If he gives you solid #4 production and makes all his starts you would be lucky.

Man, some of you guys couldn't say anything positive about this team if your lives depended on it. Agree to disagree. He began the year attacking the hitter. He only had 2 BB's in his first 32 innings. As the season progressed that deteriorated. Let's see if he can redress that over the winter and come back ready to throw strikes. I think he'll be better.

I don't know why the ballclub wouldn't expect better things from Liberatore next season.

He'll have a full off season to condition as a starter and mentally will know exactly what his role will be and expectations that go with it.

Frankly if Liberatore isn't going to be a potential 2 or at least a three in the rotation then we've really got problems.

Pretty sure he conditioned as a starter last off season.

[hugeCardfan]

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year.

Don’t count on Libby being better next year. There is a better chance that he regresses next year. He had his most innings pitched and wore down plus the hitters now have more of a book on him and how he likes to attack as a starter. This year he had 9.5 H/9 with 7K/9. He wasn’t missing a lot of bats and had dips in velocity. You shouldn’t expect much out of Liberatore next year. If he gives you solid #4 production and makes all his starts you would be lucky.

Man, some of you guys couldn't say anything positive about this team if your lives depended on it. Agree to disagree. He began the year attacking the hitter. He only had 2 BB's in his first 32 innings. As the season progressed that deteriorated. Let's see if he can redress that over the winter and come back ready to throw strikes. I think he'll be better.

I don't know why the ballclub wouldn't expect better things from Liberatore next season.

He'll have a full off season to condition as a starter and mentally will know exactly what his role will be and expectations that go with it.

Frankly if Liberatore isn't going to be a potential 2 or at least a three in the rotation then we've really got problems.

Yep. My thoughts too. He's no sure thing. But, if we hope to build a significant part of our rotation in house, we need for Libby to come up big.

[ScotchMIrish]

Good Sunday morning all! I've been pondering the Cards future. Here is where I am and, note to everyone.....I'm often wrong. I think these are the players positionwise that we could build a future with:
CF- I like the idea of letting Church and Scott II battle it out for this spot. I like both but am really fond of Church. He is great on D and has lightning speed. I really like his bat to ball skills and could see him in the leadoff spot someday.
LF- Burleson probably fits best here or 1B but I like the bat here. Noot would be OK here IF we could sign a premier RF in the next couple of years....otherwise...probably not.
RF- This depends on a lot. I've given up on Walker. But this spot could be a place for Rodriguez or Baez or a FA power bat.
4th or 5th OFs- Noot, Levenson, Mitchell, etc.
C-I'm high on Bernal! He has fantastic work ethic and reminds me of Salvy Perez(I know....I'm a homer)Crooks would be a nice backup.
1B- For now Contraras.....But I like Herrera's bat here. He can hit!
2B- I'm a Donavan guy......I'll leave it right there.
SS- I'm also a Winn guy......nough said
3B- Wetherholt.....I love this guy and think he has enough pop and arm to hold 3B down for years.
On the pitching side..... Gray is signed for at least the next 2 years. I'm ok with him at #3. McGreevy is a good 4 or 5. Quinn Mathews can also be a # 4 or 5. Others vying for those spots are Roby, Hjerpe, etc.
Doyle I'm counting on as at least a 2. Now we can sign an ace to round out a good rotation.
The BP will take care of itself or at least I hope.
What say the masses?

I never liked DH baseball and I refuse to watch it but it's hard for me to believe our pitching is standard. I think we need a complete overhaul of the pitching.

[CardsBest]

Don't forget Libby. He'll likely be more sturdy in '26. This has been the most innings for him. Looking forward to how he stands up next year.

Don’t count on Libby being better next year. There is a better chance that he regresses next year. He had his most innings pitched and wore down plus the hitters now have more of a book on him and how he likes to attack as a starter. This year he had 9.5 H/9 with 7K/9. He wasn’t missing a lot of bats and had dips in velocity. You shouldn’t expect much out of Liberatore next year. If he gives you solid #4 production and makes all his starts you would be lucky.

Man, some of you guys couldn't say anything positive about this team if your lives depended on it. Agree to disagree. He began the year attacking the hitter. He only had 2 BB's in his first 32 innings. As the season progressed that deteriorated. Let's see if he can redress that over the winter and come back ready to throw strikes. I think he'll be better.

I don't know why the ballclub wouldn't expect better things from Liberatore next season.

He'll have a full off season to condition as a starter and mentally will know exactly what his role will be and expectations that go with it.

Frankly if Liberatore isn't going to be a potential 2 or at least a three in the rotation then we've really got problems.

Yep. My thoughts too. He's no sure thing. But, if we hope to build a significant part of our rotation in house, we need for Libby to come up big.

Cards fans way over value prospects. Liberatore gave up more hits than IP, low Ks, velocity up and down, and wore down. I had others say Gorman was going to be good two years ago when I said he should be traded. I was right about Gorman and will be right about Liberatore. Liberatore will never be a #2 or #3 on a good team. At best he will be a #4 on a good team if he can even endure the long season and stay healthy. Liberatore has not proven he can even take the ball everyday in back to back seasons to make all his starts. Geez Card fans way overvalue prospects and are just wishing guys like Libby could be a #2 on a good team. LOL.

Hudson had one season where he made 30 or more starts and was good with the cards and that was at 24 his first as a starter. Wacha had one season where he made 30 or more starts and was good with the Cards and that was at 23 his second season as starter only. Flaherty had only one good season with the Cards where he pitched good and made 30 or more starts that was at 23 years old. How did Reyes who was supposed to be a top of rotation starter turnout? How about Flaherty?

Liberatore will be 26 next year and will not have as good of a season as this year. Odds are in my favor he doesn’t make 30 starts and performs better.