Nolan Gorman

[bccardsfan]

Gorman made himself into a solid 2b.

He's not a "solid 2b." He's "awful" there and should never have been put there.
He's a career -12 DRS, -19 OAA, and -15.8 FRV/150 (how many runs above or below average a fielder is per 150 defensive games there) at 2b.

He's a shocking -5 DRS at 3b in limited time.

Oh, and he can't run -- 26 sprint speed vs. Pages 25.5. He doesn't score many runs.
And he has a 30.7% K-rate, which is slightly better than his 33.5% career rate.
You can't have a player who is only 4% above average (104 wRC+) at the plate in your lineup when they can't play defense or run.

I don't mind being patient with him -- but he's a Natural Born DH.

Your desire to be proven right that there has "never been a LH hitting 2B in MLB history with his HR power ceiling" clouds all your comments. Ha ha ha.

Exactly, which is what I wrote above without all the stats. Thank you for those. Gorman is a garden gnome at second base. If you actually watch the games, you don't even need the stats to see that!

[BrockFloodMaris]

Gorman made himself into a solid 2b.

He's not a "solid 2b." He's "awful" there and should never have been put there.
He's a career -12 DRS, -19 OAA, and -15.8 FRV/150 (how many runs above or below average a fielder is per 150 defensive games there) at 2b.

He's a shocking -5 DRS at 3b in limited time.

Oh, and he can't run -- 26 sprint speed vs. Pages 25.5. He doesn't score many runs.
And he has a 30.7% K-rate, which is slightly better than his 33.5% career rate.
You can't have a player who is only 4% above average (104 wRC+) at the plate in your lineup when they can't play defense or run.

I don't mind being patient with him -- but he's a Natural Born DH.

Your desire to be proven right that there has "never been a LH hitting 2B in MLB history with his HR power ceiling" clouds all your comments. Ha ha ha.

Exactly, which is what I wrote above without all the stats. Thank you for those. Gorman is a garden gnome at second base. If you actually watch the games, you don't even need the stats to see that!

Many of us on CT, me included, wanted to see what NG could do when given more opportunity. Be careful what you wish for. This guy is not very athletic at all. He’s just a hard swinging DH-type. More playing time is just overexposing his shortcomings.

[rockondlouie]

Again

Patience w/Gorman's defense is key.

It's very tough (unless you're a gifted SUP ala B. Donovan) to move from one side of the diamond to the other.

The ball just comes off the bat differently and the throws (from 2nd v from 3rd) coming at differing angles is wild.

He has to be given time to get his 3rd base bearings back.

Did anyone really think he wasn't going to struggle early on?

Judging him on 162 innings (basically 18 games) is really unfair.

Oh

And it doesn't do him any favor following one of the best defensive 3rd baseman of all time who's great defense is so fresh in fan's minds.

JMO

This is why we don’t excel- give mediocre more time. How much time is needed. And the errors I’ve seen are simple plays.

We have much better option with JJ at third, Donovan at second, Gorman first or DH.

"Runway" season BDog, giving a player like Gorman reps at 3rd base fits the definition.

Little patience, yeah
Need a little patience, yeah
Just a little patience, yeah
Some more patience, yeah

BTW

JJ will be at 2B in 2026

Donny will go back to his SUP role (if he's still here in 2026)

WillyC at 1st base

Maybe Rock. But JJ at third with a good second baseman or JJ and second with a good fielding third baseman is a much better defensive infield. Again, the team has a collection of DH/1B types. Gorman, Burley, and WC. Something has to give. WC is adequate. He has a no trade clause I believe, so he isn't going anywhere. I would prefer we just reset things and that Nado and WC were gone. Then Gorman plays 1B where his range is not so much of an issue (except for those foul balls down the line). But that will be hard to do. Gorman is at best average defensively and I am being kind. He had the range of a garden gnome at second. Sorry... Will that play? Sure, if he hits north of .250 and drives in runs. But if he doesn't, then that D is a drag on the team. Same at third. Will his D play there? Lots of teams have slow third basemen. Just because Muncy is playing 3B for the Dodgers doesn't mean they wouldn't rather have a better defender who hits as well. Aspire for more.... don't hide guys on D. It is really hard to out slug teams day in and day out. You have to win some tight games with great D. Gorman will never give you great D. Sure, on a play or two now and then, but there will be many balls a better player with more range would get to that he doesn't. I watched him play 2B for a long time. This is who he is... Over the course of a season there are a lot of outs at 2B that he wouldn't get you. Same will be true at 3B.

As an aside, always good to have polite debate and expression of opinion without the ridiculous narcissist schtick...

Agreed, love the civil baseball debates.

Range isn't as important at 3rd base where first step and reaction time are more important than range which is a necessity at 2nd base.

He also has M. Winn to his left who has great range and can help cover the hole.

I fully understand, Gorman is never going to win a GG and may even be a bit below league average defensively.

But there aren't many Schmidt/Robinson/Rolen/NADO types who are both offensive and defensive players, those types end up in the Hall of Fame.

IF Gorman hits and hits for power, then he's the best option at 3rd and the team can live w/less than stellar defense.

And are we sure JJ would be better at 3rd?

Hasn't he been playing SS/2nd base?

I have no idea, just asking.

[icon]

All it takes is 1 RBI single for some folks to forget about all the failure.

How about waiting until the rest of the season plays out before making any judgments about whether he has turned any corners? And will Oli send him back to the bench once Arenado returns? This organization can't seem to make up its mind about the season of finding out.

And I know patience is a virtue, but it also has its limits. A decision about his future here has to be made at some point.

[icon]

190 games in the minors = 47 errors.

That's Ryan Braun level bad. And he only lasted 1 season at 3B.

But I don't think Gorman would be that bad at 3B now.

[Ozziesfan41]

All it takes is 1 RBI single for some folks to forget about all the failure.

How about waiting until the rest of the season plays out before making any judgments about whether he has turned any corners? And will Oli send him back to the bench once Arenado returns? This organization can't seem to make up its mind about the season of finding out.

And I know patience is a virtue, but it also has its limits. A decision about his future here has to be made at some point.

Or at least gets his ops above his career ops in 1400 plus plate appearances of .732

[ilcubuffs]

Drafted in 2018 out of high school in Phoenix.

2018 - JC & Peoria
2019 - Peoria & Pal
2021 - Spr & Memphis

Let's say 4 yrs of ball in HS plus 6 yrs (did not include 2020 - COVID) of ball after drafted. For sake of conversation - 10 yrs of organized baseball. Granted each level the competition becomes better skilled. Yet Gorman is no where close to MLB quality fielder - .977 career covering 2B, 3B, LF. He is not a competent hitter - in general he has avg 30% SO at every level. Over 4 yrs in MLB he avg 17 HR & 48 RBi's.

To date he is NOT a 25HR/yr hitter, not a decent RBi producer, and fielding is considered "good". Dodgers can "hide" Muncy hitting because of Ohtani, Freeman, Betts, Sages, et al. Muncy fields at .993 at 3B. IF Gorman is the best of Cardinal organization at 3B or 2B or wherever then this organization is in deep sh*t on player development.

Unless Bloom can hire a hitting guru to cut SO's, increase hits and rbi's why is Gorman eating up time and resources? His history pretty much tell who and what kind of MLB player he is.

[ecleme22]

190 games in the minors = 47 errors.

That's an error in 24.7% of all games.

Renteria in minors: An error in 26.7 of all games.
Rolen in minors: 24.4%
Ozzie Smith: 35%

[OldRed]

190 games in the minors = 47 errors.

That's an error in 24.7% of all games.

Renteria in minors: An error in 26.7 of all games.
Rolen in minors: 24.4%
Ozzie Smith: 35%

You have to be out of your mind to compare Gorman to those three players. They all had range and Renteria and Rolen had great throwing arms. Ozzie is and always be in a class of his own. I don't know where you came up with those %'s but for Gorman that was an error every four games.

[rockondlouie]

Gorman last 90 PA's:

6 HR
.481 SLG%
.800 OPS

If he can do that over a full season, then we can live w/an average (even slightly below average) glove at 3rd base.

[sikeston bulldog2]

Gorman last 90 PA's:

6 HR
.481 SLG%
.800 OPS

If he can do that over a full season, then we can live w/an average (even slightly below average) glove at 3rd base.

We might be able to live with it but our pitchers can’t. We can do better. There’s a slot open for him. DH.

[Bad14]

I hope Bloom doesn't trade Gorman in the off season but trades Arenado so he can play third everyday. I guarantee if you trade him he will hit thirty homers for another team. The kid come through last night with a key hit for the lead.

He's not a good 3rd baseman defensively.

That's being kind. He's the reason the Cubs got 1 of their runs.

[Ozziesfan41]

Gorman last 90 PA's:

6 HR
.481 SLG%
.800 OPS

If he can do that over a full season, then we can live w/an average (even slightly below average) glove at 3rd base.

Yea his last 90 days aren’t bad but small sample sizes can look good but his season doesn’t look good and his last two seasons suck and his career is very meh in 1400 plate appearances

[rockondlouie]

Gorman last 90 PA's:

6 HR
.481 SLG%
.800 OPS

If he can do that over a full season, then we can live w/an average (even slightly below average) glove at 3rd base.

We might be able to live with it but our pitchers can’t. We can do better. There’s a slot open for him. DH.

Do you like E. Suarez?

37 HR
.849 OPS

Did you know he's a -6 DRS at 3rd base this season?

How about J. Caminero, do you like him?

32 HR
.817 OPS

Did you know he's a -4 DRS at 3rd base this season?

I'm NOT saying Gorman will hit 32-37 HR's (although he did hit 27 HR's in 2023).

But if he does, then like Suarez & Caminero he's an asset.

[ecleme22]

190 games in the minors = 47 errors.

That's an error in 24.7% of all games.

Renteria in minors: An error in 26.7 of all games.
Rolen in minors: 24.4%
Ozzie Smith: 35%

You have to be out of your mind to compare Gorman to those three players. They all had range and Renteria and Rolen had great throwing arms. Ozzie is and always be in a class of his own. I don't know where you came up with those %'s but for Gorman that was an error every four games.

Yes, Gorman had an error, as I said, 24.7% of every game.

My stats are facts.

Maybe these facts show you how moronic it is to just look at minor league errors.

[hugeCardfan]

Considering the cardinals probably have no plans to be competitive next season, the Cardinals might as well try to get a full season out of them. Gorman is heading into his prime years. Walker will be just beginning his prime years next season. Gorman is a better hitter than he was in 2024. Walker is having a good second half. I’d give them both another season. Trading either, potentially too early, most likely outweighs any return the cardinals are going to get back. I’d be more inclined to trade Donovan if they’re not going to extend him, along with Nootbaar.
It sure would be nice to be able to tell a guy in October what the plan is for him the following season, so he can actually create and execute an offseason plan.

Assumption not in evidence.