Rebuild: Where are we right now-How long will it take based on assumptions

[Red Bird Classic]

Rebuild starts February 30.

Bhahahaha.

(bleep)! I hope you're wrong.

[dugoutrex]

I think we can all start making fun of High Em within a year or 2

[OldRed]

They have to draft another Albert and Yadi and then trade for a Wano, Rolen and Edmonds.

[JuanAgosto]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

[rockondlouie]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

Agreed Juan.

Firing Oli is JOB #1 for C. Bloom, hiring a strong replacement is JOB #2!

JOB #3 is culling the deadwood and position logjams off this roster via trades or DFA's.

JOB #4 is making those trades and smart free agent signings.

[mattmitchl44]

To do a deep rebuild, Houston took at least four years (2011-2014), Atlanta at least three years (2015-2017), Philadelphia at least five years (2013-2017), etc.

So this might be Year 1 of a 4-5 year process before they can be a 90+ win team regularly.

[Red Bird Classic]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

What do you mean by competitive?

Competitive for a Wild Card? For a playoff spot? This is a bad baseball team. That was true before the deadline deals. Adding a bat and a SP isn't gonna make this team a serious WS contender.

[Clubmaker2]

I dont see the build the farm system org folks, immediately selling the farm system for trades for a pitcher and 2 outfielders. But they should have plenty cash to bid on something, which should be a good pitcher, which they should do but will likely at best, cheap out on one year contract rehab veteran.

As for the Cardinals will wait till 2027 and get what they need, Well, how does not every team in baseball also wait and hope to get what they need in 2027? Will there not be way to many buyers in 2027? And, Wait out the injuries..that is a fallacy or nothing but too much hope.. people are almost always getting injured, also Sonny G will have to be replace so another hole....

Smart move is, get the pitcher, or risk the empty ballpark next season. Momentum is tomorrows startign pitcher. Good pitcher gives them a chance, some justified optimism Gray, Libs, new guy, mcgreevy, Pallante or whoever.. If Tennessee kid develops fast, if needed, they can skip grays option year for 2027 to reduce pitcher payroll. (Edit: for 2026 pickup two Matons for the bullpen)

[JuanAgosto]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

What do you mean by competitive?

Competitive for a Wild Card? For a playoff spot? This is a bad baseball team. That was true before the deadline deals. Adding a bat and a SP isn't gonna make this team a serious WS contender.

Did i say they would be World Series bound? They could be competitive. As in potentially being in a race for a playoff spot. Which would be good considering they are in the midst of a rebuild.

[Ozziesfan41]

We have to give Chaim Bloom the benefit of the doubt.
Farm system is pretty average right now.
I think we have one tier 1 guy in JJ
We have one tier 2 guy in Doyle.
Let's assume payroll is maintained between $140M-$160M.
How long of a rebuild do you anticipate?
I mean, when do you see multiple years of divisional championships coming?

I have to be honest, it seems like it could take at least 4-5 years to rebuild this ship.
Wondering what you guys think.

So, assume the following:

1. M Winn ups his WAR to 5.5
2. Management is willing to have a payroll at around $160M
3. JJ and Doyle are for real and become 4 WAR players or better.
4. We get lucky with a couple of other current young players such as Walker, Gorman, Burleson or Scott.
5. Bernal is the everyday catcher by 2026.
6. Libbey, Mathews, McGreevy are all starters in the rotation.

The time table depends on their strategy if it’s a continuation of Mos sustained mediocrity strategy where they sign a mediocre starter in the offseason maybe a hope and prayer reliever and keep Donovan and burly instead of selling high on them then yea the mediocrity will last a few more years.

[WLTFE]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

A change of the face of the franchise...fans are sick of seeing and hearing the insipid interviews of the head clown, Mo-ran And some aggressive moves that send a message that a the front office cares and will spend .

[dugoutrex]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

A change of the face of the franchise...fans are sick of seeing and hearing the insipid interviews of the head clown, Mo-ran And some aggressive moves that send a message that a the front office cares and will spend .

you think we are going to start spending ?

[WLTFE]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

A change of the face of the franchise...fans are sick of seeing and hearing the insipid interviews of the head clown, Mo-ran And some aggressive moves that send a message that a the front office cares and will spend .

you think we are going to start spending ?

DeTwat, probably not...it's not a fun time to be a Cards fan unless you want to live in the past as many posters choose to

[Dicktar2023]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

What do you mean by competitive?

Competitive for a Wild Card? For a playoff spot? This is a bad baseball team. That was true before the deadline deals. Adding a bat and a SP isn't gonna make this team a serious WS contender.

Great question.

The problem is that the powers that be don't believe this is a bad team. This team won 83 games last year, that was enough to win a WS in 2006, blah blah blah.

We've arrived at this spot in 2025 in large part because of that middling "win 85 games and see what happens" philosophy that has defined the organization for the last decade. I want to give Bloom a chance, but my greatest fear is that it turns out Mo was never the source of that ideology of mediocrity...that it was all DeWitt, and so nothing is going to change.

[Red Bird Classic]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

What do you mean by competitive?

Competitive for a Wild Card? For a playoff spot? This is a bad baseball team. That was true before the deadline deals. Adding a bat and a SP isn't gonna make this team a serious WS contender.

Did i say they would be World Series bound? They could be competitive. As in potentially being in a race for a playoff spot. Which would be good considering they are in the midst of a rebuild.

You're buying into the league's bull[shirt] system of adding playoff teams until almost everyone can be in contention. Screw that. If the team isn't good enough to be a serious WS contender, they might just as well be 70-92. That way at least they can focus on building for another year.

[Red Bird Classic]

I've been saying now that the inept POBO is gone at seasons end and we've got a bright POBO who can both walk (build the farm system) & chew gum (build a competitive ML roster) at the same time.

My hope is BDWJr gives Bloom the payroll he needs to add pieces that may be many years away from coming from within.

Doing this IS NOT going back to the "old" way!

Bloom has spent two years upgrading the minor league system, it's (hopefully) now up to speed and running smoothly.

R. Cerfolio by all counts is also a massive upgrade, he can oversee things below and make sure our prospects are getting everything they need to reach their potential (something lacking under Mo).

If Bloom can pull off a great trade (starting pitcher) or two (offensive OF'er) this winter and BDWJr gives him some money to spend WISELY (unlike Mo) to fill in the gaps, then we could see the Cardinals back on the right track much sooner than later.

JMO

I agree, Rock. I've been saying the addition of one good SP and a good bat could make this team competitive next year. Of course the addition of a strong manager would also help.

What do you mean by competitive?

Competitive for a Wild Card? For a playoff spot? This is a bad baseball team. That was true before the deadline deals. Adding a bat and a SP isn't gonna make this team a serious WS contender.

Great question.

The problem is that the powers that be don't believe this is a bad team. This team won 83 games last year, that was enough to win a WS in 2006, blah blah blah.

We've arrived at this spot in 2025 in large part because of that middling "win 85 games and see what happens" philosophy that has defined the organization for the last decade. I want to give Bloom a chance, but my greatest fear is that it turns out Mo was never the source of that ideology of mediocrity...that it was all DeWitt, and so nothing is going to change.

I agree with all this. The FO needs to focus on building a serious WS contender. Competing for a playoff spot just isn't good enough.