gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Your obsession with the DH is quite strange. There are some great baseball players these days. Not watching because of this means you are missing out on a lot. In your thread on this the other day, you cited Adam Wainwright as wanting to hit. That is quite ironic as the AB where he ruptured his achilles at the beginning of 2015 likely prevents him from becoming a HOFer. He was never the same pitcher again after that. Which was quite a shame. Absent that injury, he probably picks up 30-40 more career wins and his career ERA is likely .5 lower. We also don't have to suffer through 2023 in his quest for 200 and he goes out with his buddies, Albert and Yadi.
The Cards had another pitcher, whose name is escaping me now. We signed him as a free agent, he hit a grand slam, pulled his lat on the swing and never pitched for us again...
Pitchers get injured pitching. Should we go to a pitching machine to protect the pitchers? Warren Spahn had 2,000 plate appearance and never an injury.
In 2021 NL 9 hitters hit .166. AL 9 hitters hit .226. AL got 6 more hits per 100 at bats. 1 more hit per 17 at bats. 1 more hit every 4th game. That'll draw the crowds.
Was thinking of your pitching machine idea . Imagine if the machine on the mound thru 100% fastballs right down the middle at about 92 mph ..
Imagine how major league hitters would so ... They say fans love to see HR's ... Would they pay $$ to sit at Busch watching 52 combined homers fly out of the park with final scores of 33-25 . Wonder how long people would pay for that .
AL Central top payroll tie Tigers and Twins first and second place Tigers and Twins
AL West top payroll Astros first place Astros.
Second place teams are all higher than others in their division with the exception of Tampa.
Do low payroll teams not have any leverage to get a payroll cap? The current "cap" is too high and the penalties are not stiff enough. The Blues finally won a cup after NHL owners banded together and had a lockout to get a payroll cap and every other pro sport has a serious cap.
I think DH baseball is an issue with attendance but clearly the imbalance in payrolls impacts winning and winning impacts attendance.
Not without a minimum that is 75-80% (lowest minimum in professional sports is currently 80%) of cap which would be $300m. The only way there will ever be a cap is with forced full revenue sharing including ALL income TV and otherwise
With the amateur draft and international signings they have gone in the direction of big payroll teams and the unions recently will slot limits and a limit on international spending. Changes in free agent compensation also benefitted big market teams and the union. A primary reason was the pirates who went from 20 consecutive losing seasons to playoff contender by spending more than any other team in the draft and international signings while having one of the lowest payrolls. Union hated it and big payroll teams hated it.
MLB needs to stop bending to the unions when the current collective bargaining agreement ends in 2026. If they want to go on strike let them.
Not bending to the union. The MLB really only cares about the big markets hence its business model of no full revenue sharing like all other professional sports has
They are bending to the union. Combination of that and big market teams both lobbying for this stuff. Both hated the Pirates suddenly being in contention by spending in the draft and international signings while maintaining a low payroll.
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
Like watching a punter fake a punt and try to throw the ball.
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
2021 Al 9 hitters .226
2021 NL hitters .166
That's one hit every 17 at bats. Once every 4 games. Ending the pitcher batting for one hit every 4 games is dumb.
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
2021 Al 9 hitters .226
2021 NL hitters .166
That's one hit every 17 at bats. Once every 4 games. Ending the pitcher batting for one hit every 4 games is dumb.
Getting the DH in the NL was way overdue. Sorry it's not 1968 any longer
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
2021 Al 9 hitters .226
2021 NL hitters .166
That's one hit every 17 at bats. Once every 4 games. Ending the pitcher batting for one hit every 4 games is dumb.
Getting the DH in the NL was way overdue. Sorry it's not 1968 any longer
What happened to the fans who supposedly love the DH?
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
2021 Al 9 hitters .226
2021 NL hitters .166
That's one hit every 17 at bats. Once every 4 games. Ending the pitcher batting for one hit every 4 games is dumb.
Getting the DH in the NL was way overdue. Sorry it's not 1968 any longer
What happened to the fans who supposedly love the DH?
Easier and cheaper to watch from home. I watch every game from my couch, but my wife and i only go to a game if it is free tickets. too much hassle. But that's a different conversation than you not being able or willing to accept the DH, and that is it in fact not 1978
AL Central top payroll tie Tigers and Twins first and second place Tigers and Twins
AL West top payroll Astros first place Astros.
Second place teams are all higher than others in their division with the exception of Tampa.
Do low payroll teams not have any leverage to get a payroll cap? The current "cap" is too high and the penalties are not stiff enough. The Blues finally won a cup after NHL owners banded together and had a lockout to get a payroll cap and every other pro sport has a serious cap.
I think DH baseball is an issue with attendance but clearly the imbalance in payrolls impacts winning and winning impacts attendance.
Not without a minimum that is 75-80% (lowest minimum in professional sports is currently 80%) of cap which would be $300m. The only way there will ever be a cap is with forced full revenue sharing including ALL income TV and otherwise
How did you arrive at a cap figure of $ 300 million?
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
2021 Al 9 hitters .226
2021 NL hitters .166
That's one hit every 17 at bats. Once every 4 games. Ending the pitcher batting for one hit every 4 games is dumb.
Pitchers were replaced by the DH, why not compare pitchers to the DH? The "new" player in the 9-spot in the NL was previously the 8-spot hitter. Additionally, since the AL had the DH, teams could more easily carry a glove only guy in the 9-spot than their NL counterparts. Also, did you adjust for AL team's 9-spot hitters, when they were playing in NL parks, with pitchers batting? And, did you account for NL teams pinch hitting for the pitcher in the 9-spot or is it all lumped in?
But if that's what you are going with... hits are not the only potential positive outcome, so why not list the whole slash or simply OPS?
In '21 the highest OPS for an NL team's 9-spot was .547. In the AL, it was .715, which was fairly close to league average, .728. The lowest in the NL, .398. The lowest in the AL, .538. Obviously, AL got more walks and more extra base hits from their 9-spot than their NL counterparts. It's just not as simple as you're trying to make it.
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Your obsession with the DH is quite strange. There are some great baseball players these days. Not watching because of this means you are missing out on a lot. In your thread on this the other day, you cited Adam Wainwright as wanting to hit. That is quite ironic as the AB where he ruptured his achilles at the beginning of 2015 likely prevents him from becoming a HOFer. He was never the same pitcher again after that. Which was quite a shame. Absent that injury, he probably picks up 30-40 more career wins and his career ERA is likely .5 lower. We also don't have to suffer through 2023 in his quest for 200 and he goes out with his buddies, Albert and Yadi.
The Cards had another pitcher, whose name is escaping me now. We signed him as a free agent, he hit a grand slam, pulled his lat on the swing and never pitched for us again...
It’s a good thing pitchers never injure themselves while pitching, only while hitting.
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
Curious about the infomercial comment. When were the telecasts different and how?
Why look at #9 hitters when you can see pitcher and DH numbers directly? After all, pitchers were frequently pinch-hit for and DHs didn't always bat 9th.
2021 NL pitchers--110/149/140
2021 AL DHs--240/317/437
You can reprise your argument above and say "that's only 13 more hits per 100" but "twice as frequently" makes the point more clearly--pitchers couldn't hit. For many they didn't even try. SLG < OBP for all pitchers over a season is pretty damning.
Or check this out:
2021 NL pitchers had 1960 Ks and 162 Ws in 4447 PAs.
2021 AL DHs had 2475 Ks and 895 Ws in 9605 PAs.
You can get all nostalgic about the glories of pitchers coming to bat but that was all they did. They lost the hitting part years ago as the game changed and players became more specialized. I for one don't miss having to watch professional players strike out 12 times for every walk they managed.
Why look at #9 hitters when you can see pitcher and DH numbers directly? After all, pitchers were frequently pinch-hit for and DHs didn't always bat 9th.
2021 NL pitchers--110/149/140
2021 AL DHs--240/317/437
You can reprise your argument above and say "that's only 13 more hits per 100" but "twice as frequently" makes the point more clearly--pitchers couldn't hit. For many they didn't even try. SLG < OBP for all pitchers over a season is pretty damning.
Or check this out:
2021 NL pitchers had 1960 Ks and 162 Ws in 4447 PAs.
2021 AL DHs had 2475 Ks and 895 Ws in 9605 PAs.
You can get all nostalgic about the glories of pitchers coming to bat but that was all they did. They lost the hitting part years ago as the game changed and players became more specialized. I for one don't miss having to watch professional players strike out 12 times for every walk they managed.
gpe13579 wrote: ↑06 Jun 2025 12:10 pm
This is the biggest reason for my lagging interest in the game. I pretty much watch because over the summer, on a week night there are few other sports options. They have expanded the wildcard as far as they can at this point to trick fans into thinking their team is in real contention. But the have's just keep growing the separation from the have nots each year.
Others still enjoy it and that's fine with me. For me, that is the biggest reason for my lagging interest.
Nothing to do with the DH.
The other main reason for me is that Cardinal baseball has become a three hour infomercial and I can't stand it. No problem with announcers being homers, but the ridiculous, over the top telecast are more than I can bare.
I listen sometimes on radio. Cannot watch DH baseball.
Forcing pitchers to bat was one of the dumbest rules in the history of sports. There was never anything as anti-climatic like seeing a rally killed when the 8th place hitter was walked and the pitcher was forced to bat!
2021 Al 9 hitters .226
2021 NL hitters .166
That's one hit every 17 at bats. Once every 4 games. Ending the pitcher batting for one hit every 4 games is dumb.
Getting the DH in the NL was way overdue. Sorry it's not 1968 any longer
What happened to the fans who supposedly love the DH?
Easier and cheaper to watch from home. I watch every game from my couch, but my wife and i only go to a game if it is free tickets. too much hassle. But that's a different conversation than you not being able or willing to accept the DH, and that is it in fact not 1978
Universal DH was enacted in 2022 not 1978. What's so exciting about one more hit every 17 at bats?
