Could Nathan Church be a better hitter than Scott?

[Cranny]

There’s a reason he lasted until the 11th round in his draft year. He doesn’t bring anything special to
the table.

[hugeCardfan]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

You have no clue on this one.

That’s wrong, sorry. I follow the minor leagues in detail. He a small outfielder with little power. Dime a dozen player. He’s not a fit for a corner and we already have a centerfielder.

You have a right to an opinion Cranny and I often agree with you. Not this time. When Altuve showed up to his first tryout with Houston, they wouldn't let him stay. He was told to go home and not return until he grew up. His 5'6" frame has stood the test of time. He has lasted 16 years in the majors and accumulated a 52.5 WAR. Not trying to say that Church is anywhere near as good. I don't know. Neither do you. But, it doesn't hurt us to find out.

[Melville]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

By the way, some folks who dismiss a #21 ranked prospect such as Church, should take note that in 2021 Pallante was the 26th ranked prospect in the system, Burleson was #29, Pages was #40, and Donovan was #50.

I'm not dismissing him; I've admitted I know little to nothing about him.

But this I know for certain...Marshall knows nothing as well. He's never seen him play.

And the fun part? A few weeks ago Marshall was asking if Scott was better than Brock. Today he's ready to hand the CF job to an 11th round pick who turns 25 in July and has a .719 OPS in 1175 minor league ABs.

I hope the kid becomes a superstar...but the odds are stacked against him, are they not?

With very, very few exceptions, the odds of any minor league player becoming a superstar are at least 1000:1.
But that is not what the Cardinals really need.
Right now, they have zero established, reliable, productive outfielders on their major league roster.
That is not a particularly high bar for Church to clear.

[Melville]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

You have no clue on this one.

That’s wrong, sorry. I follow the minor leagues in detail. He a small outfielder with little power. Dime a dozen player. He’s not a fit for a corner and we already have a centerfielder.

You have a right to an opinion Cranny and I often agree with you. Not this time. When Altuve showed up to his first tryout with Houston, they wouldn't let him stay. He was told to go home and not return until he grew up. His 5'6" frame has stood the test of time. He has lasted 16 years in the majors and accumulated a 52.5 WAR. Not trying to say that Church is anywhere near as good. I don't know. Neither do you. But, it doesn't hurt us to find out.

Finding out is a good thing.
No player should be anointed with a job based on hype.
And no player should be dismissed based on draft round.
Personally, I prefer making judgments based on competition and performance.

[Cranny]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

You have no clue on this one.

That’s wrong, sorry. I follow the minor leagues in detail. He a small outfielder with little power. Dime a dozen player. He’s not a fit for a corner and we already have a centerfielder.

You have a right to an opinion Cranny and I often agree with you. Not this time. When Altuve showed up to his first tryout with Houston, they wouldn't let him stay. He was told to go home and not return until he grew up. His 5'6" frame has stood the test of time. He has lasted 16 years in the majors and accumulated a 52.5 WAR. Not trying to say that Church is anywhere near as good. I don't know. Neither do you. But, it doesn't hurt us to find out.

You think he can beat out Scott II? Because if he can’t, he doesn’t have a position.

[Melville]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

You have no clue on this one.

That’s wrong, sorry. I follow the minor leagues in detail. He a small outfielder with little power. Dime a dozen player. He’s not a fit for a corner and we already have a centerfielder.

You have a right to an opinion Cranny and I often agree with you. Not this time. When Altuve showed up to his first tryout with Houston, they wouldn't let him stay. He was told to go home and not return until he grew up. His 5'6" frame has stood the test of time. He has lasted 16 years in the majors and accumulated a 52.5 WAR. Not trying to say that Church is anywhere near as good. I don't know. Neither do you. But, it doesn't hurt us to find out.

You think he can beat out Scott II? Because if he can’t, he doesn’t have a position.

Right now, they have zero established, reliable, productive outfielders on their major league roster.
That is not a particularly high bar for Church to clear.
Worth finding out.

[Cranny]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

You have no clue on this one.

That’s wrong, sorry. I follow the minor leagues in detail. He a small outfielder with little power. Dime a dozen player. He’s not a fit for a corner and we already have a centerfielder.

You have a right to an opinion Cranny and I often agree with you. Not this time. When Altuve showed up to his first tryout with Houston, they wouldn't let him stay. He was told to go home and not return until he grew up. His 5'6" frame has stood the test of time. He has lasted 16 years in the majors and accumulated a 52.5 WAR. Not trying to say that Church is anywhere near as good. I don't know. Neither do you. But, it doesn't hurt us to find out.

You think he can beat out Scott II? Because if he can’t, he doesn’t have a position.

Right now, they have zero established, reliable, productive outfielders on their major league roster.
That is not a particularly high bar for Church to clear.
Worth finding out.

11th round draft pick with no standout skills.

[craviduce]

Standout skills?

Church is rated as ++ Speed and + Defense and + Arm....I'd argue the Defense and especially arm should be ++

++ is a 70/80 rating.

He has 3 of 5 skills that stand out, and they stand out immensely

[Futuregm2]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

By the way, some folks who dismiss a #21 ranked prospect such as Church, should take note that in 2021 Pallante was the 26th ranked prospect in the system, Burleson was #29, Pages was #40, and Donovan was #50.

And Nootbaar was never a top 30 prospect.

Nice to see when players provide more value than they are expected to.

[Melville]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

By the way, some folks who dismiss a #21 ranked prospect such as Church, should take note that in 2021 Pallante was the 26th ranked prospect in the system, Burleson was #29, Pages was #40, and Donovan was #50.

And Nootbaar was never a top 30 prospect.

Nice to see when players provide more value than they are expected to.

Mootbaar is an excellent example of "no stand out skills".
Poor runner.
Poor defender.
Poor arm.
Poor BA.
He does hunt walks very well.
Gotta give him that.
Quite possible Church will prove to be a better glove, have a better arm, be the better baserunner, and be a more consistent hitter.
And maybe not.
Worth finding out.

[Melville]

Standout skills?

Church is rated as ++ Speed and + Defense and + Arm....I'd argue the Defense and especially arm should be ++

++ is a 70/80 rating.

He has 3 of 5 skills that stand out, and they stand out immensely

Fair point.

[Shady]

I only listen to games on radio - does Scott look as bad as it sounds on radio at the plate?

Scott has been struggling with breaking balls. And he's been getting a bunch of them. I've seen Church in action. He was impressive. I noticed his lofty batting average and his promotion to AAA. That's why I posted the OP.

[hugeCardfan]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

You have no clue on this one.

That’s wrong, sorry. I follow the minor leagues in detail. He a small outfielder with little power. Dime a dozen player. He’s not a fit for a corner and we already have a centerfielder.

You have a right to an opinion Cranny and I often agree with you. Not this time. When Altuve showed up to his first tryout with Houston, they wouldn't let him stay. He was told to go home and not return until he grew up. His 5'6" frame has stood the test of time. He has lasted 16 years in the majors and accumulated a 52.5 WAR. Not trying to say that Church is anywhere near as good. I don't know. Neither do you. But, it doesn't hurt us to find out.

You think he can beat out Scott II? Because if he can’t, he doesn’t have a position.

I don't know about Scott II. He's a good player. But, he's not perfect. He's a LH batter who was pinch hit for today against a RH pitcher....in a crucial situation. He depends greatly on his speed so a leg injury would hamper his career. You never know.

In any event, I think Church could be a #4 outfielder, and, Cranny, that is a ML position. By the way, he can play the corners. Let's see how his power progresses. Altuve hit 238 HR's. He only had 9 in his first 200 games.

[Shady]

There’s a reason he lasted until the 11th round in his draft year. He doesn’t bring anything special to
the table.

What round was Pujols picked in? It wasn't high. What was the reason for that?

[Shady]

Church is not a prospect. No reason to waste a thread on him.

You have no clue on this one.

That’s wrong, sorry. I follow the minor leagues in detail. He a small outfielder with little power. Dime a dozen player. He’s not a fit for a corner and we already have a centerfielder.

You have a right to an opinion Cranny and I often agree with you. Not this time. When Altuve showed up to his first tryout with Houston, they wouldn't let him stay. He was told to go home and not return until he grew up. His 5'6" frame has stood the test of time. He has lasted 16 years in the majors and accumulated a 52.5 WAR. Not trying to say that Church is anywhere near as good. I don't know. Neither do you. But, it doesn't hurt us to find out.

You think he can beat out Scott II? Because if he can’t, he doesn’t have a position.

I don't know about Scott II. He's a good player. But, he's not perfect. He's a LH batter who was pinch hit for today against a RH pitcher....in a crucial situation. He depends greatly on his speed so a leg injury would hamper his career. You never know.

In any event, I think Church could be a #4 outfielder, and, Cranny, that is a ML position. By the way, he can play the corners. Let's see how his power progresses. Altuve hit 238 HR's. He only had 9 in his first 200 games.

Church usually takes very competitive ABs. Kind of like Burleson does vs RHP.

[AZ_Cardsfan]

Funny stuff. The .364 AAA average is in ELEVEN ABS. Meaningless. Instead why don't people pull up the scouting reports and see if he is a serious prospect.

Scouting grades: Hit: 45 | Power: 40 | Run: 70 | Arm: 60 | Field: 60 | Overall: 40

Church was Paul Skenes’ high-school teammate at El Toro High School in Lake Forest, California, and headed to UC Irvine from there. He set the Anteaters’ single-season record with 100 hits in 2021, returned for a solid season in 2022 and went in the 11th round to the Cardinals that summer, signing for $125,000. He was an average performer for High-A Peoria in 2023 and climbed to Double-A with solid results (.263/.331/.373, nine homers, 24 steals) last season. Church rounded out his second full season in the Arizona Fall League, where he hit .364/.397/.418 in 15 games.

In short while he has tools in 3 of the measurable skills that matter, his hit and hot for power are his weakest. These are the hardest ones to find and most critical to a players success. You can hid slow weak throwing poor fielding guys who hit and hit for power. You can not hide a guy who simply can't hit.

Maybe he has found something and is a better hitter than that scouting report. For his sake and the Cardinals sake I'd love to see it happen. But taking his 11 ABs in Memphis out of context is either duplicitous to get attention,or stupidity. Had he known or mentioned he hit 364 in 2024 AZFL in 55 ABs that is a larger more interesting sample. Still,,,, whatever.

Pretty sure no one here has seen him play. I do go to AZFL games and do not recall seeing him.