MLBN show: Should Cardinals be buyers or sellers at trade deadline ?

[Ozziesfan41]

If they're where they are now or better, then add to the bullpen.

If they go into a tailspin and fall way behind the scrubbies, then see what you can get for Helsley, Fedde, Matz and NADO (Mikolas too if he'd waive the NTC).

But don't just give NADO away for salary relief, he has to being back a quality prospect.

Then he will be a cardinal for the rest of his career because no one is going to trade a quality prospect for him

Good, his reaming contract is only $19M (-$5M from Rockies + $3M deferred) and $15M.

I'm not giving him away just so BDWJr can buy another Hollywood mansion.

I would say trade him if you can because he wasnt good last season hes doing worse this season and with Weatherholt coming and Saggese theres no real reason to keep a glove first light hitting third baseman but just my opinion. If he were a leader maybe they should keep him but he is not

[rockondlouie]

If they're where they are now or better, then add to the bullpen.

If they go into a tailspin and fall way behind the scrubbies, then see what you can get for Helsley, Fedde, Matz and NADO (Mikolas too if he'd waive the NTC).

But don't just give NADO away for salary relief, he has to being back a quality prospect.

Then he will be a cardinal for the rest of his career because no one is going to trade a quality prospect for him

Good, his reaming contract is only $19M (-$5M from Rockies + $3M deferred) and $15M.

I'm not giving him away just so BDWJr can buy another Hollywood mansion.

I would say trade him if you can because he wasnt good last season hes doing worse this season and with Weatherholt coming and Saggese theres no real reason to keep a glove first light hitting third baseman but just my opinion. If he were a leader maybe they should keep him but he is not

He's been league a league average hitter (100 OPS+ for 2024-2025) Ozzie.

And he has played Gold Glove level defense last season (+10 OAA/+9 DRS) and this year (+5 OAA is #1 in MLB/+3 DRS).

A 100 OPS+ hitter that plays GG defense has value in the trade market, no way I just give him away for salary relief BDWJr is going to pocket given the slip in attendance.

(And IMO JJW is ticketed for 2nd base, not 3rd and Saggese isn't a fulltime fit at 3rd base, he's a SUP)

JMO

[kyace]

Wait and see approach at this time for most part. However if a team is willing to give up a good prospect I would look to deal either Fedde or Matz. McGrevy has earned a shot at starting. Helsley is another matter. With him you need to wait and see as you could offer him a QO and possibly net a draft pick. However if the Phils are willing to give up Aiden Miller for him or a package that includes Gorman also then that would be too good to pass up. Miller would fit the need of a future rh power bat to play third base.

[AnExParrot]

On MLB Central TV show today , they had retired GM Dan O'Dowd as their guest . He was asked the title question .

O'Dowds comments :
'I think the Cardinals have been so good because they eliminated expectations. It's crazy but it's just kinda how the game works. I think they should continue to SELL up until their closer.
I think when you look at it ..you've got ..Nolan Gorman needs to play . He's not going to be the defensive player that Arenado is . I think he is going to produce if given a chance to play every single day . They just sent out Thomas Saggese ...he's a good player . Got no place to play. He should be in the mix.
When you look at Fedde , will they win a championship with those kinda pitchers ? I like McGreevy, I like Quinn Matthews ... they have young pitching coming on. .. The closer (pause ) I would hesitate on because as a young club you wanna win the games.

The Cardinals are stuck with the fact .. Is this team good enough to win a World Series ? If not, let's continue to tinker with it until they put the group together good enough to win the WS. THE END

Any points you agree with ? Disagree ?

I agree with selling Fedde, Mikolas, Matz and Arenado. I also agree with Helsley being the wild card.

Regarding Helsley being the wildcard . Yes, a few different ways to view Helsley situation .
1) Would he and Cards reach an extension ? Option 1 seems so so
2) Helsley is the one free agent of the expiring contract guys you could put the QO (quailifying offer on $21+M ) as on the open market he would get more and by doing the QO , the Cardinals would get a draft compensation pick guaranteed. So you could keep him til the end of 2025 and still get something in return most likely. Yes, you could trade him (and they may ) but returns you never know.. Look what Brewers got back for Josh Hader in 2022, 4 players and not really a big return for Brewers


Now in Mikolas case, you could not risk that route. If you offer him QO , he would take that in a heartbeat , return, and you are stuck with paying hm $21M .. not going to happen. Same scenario why Goldy wasn't given QO .. he got $12.5 M from NYY on open market.

The Hader deal got the Brewers Esteury Ruiz, who was then traded for William Contreras. Nothing wrong with the return the Brewers got out of trading Hader. Why do you keep acting like there is?

[renostl]

If they're where they are now or better, then add to the bullpen.

If they go into a tailspin and fall way behind the scrubbies, then see what you can get for Helsley, Fedde, Matz and NADO (Mikolas too if he'd waive the NTC).

But don't just give NADO away for salary relief, he has to being back a quality prospect.

Then he will be a cardinal for the rest of his career because no one is going to trade a quality prospect for him

Good, his reaming contract is only $19M (-$5M from Rockies + $3M deferred) and $15M.

I'm not giving him away just so BDWJr can buy another Hollywood mansion.

I would say trade him if you can because he wasnt good last season hes doing worse this season and with Weatherholt coming and Saggese theres no real reason to keep a glove first light hitting third baseman but just my opinion. If he were a leader maybe they should keep him but he is not

Unless a team is among the best or the worst the terms of buyer and seller seem wrong. The goal is always to get
better IMO.

NA gets more heat than deserved on the perception that he has no leadership skills. He admitted to not being a vocal
leader, not being a zero at it. Keeping him or moving him should be based on his production And if he wants to go.
If he doesn't it's a moot point and we have a light hitting 3B.

[Cranny]

The answer is - both.

[hullie]

When are teams sellers 1 game out of Division title? I’d dump NA, only because he’s not productive and there are better options

Saving runs matters

[45s]

Two questions they need to resolve close to the deadline…

Is this team one player away from the WS?

Do they have the assets to acquire that player?

If the answer is no to either question, they should continue to clean house.

[renostl]

Two questions they need to resolve close to the deadline…

Is this team one player away from the WS?

Do they have the assets to acquire that player?

If the answer is no to either question, they should continue to clean house.

WS are rare.
Only get a pennant once in 6 years as a Cardinal fan which is better than most teams.
A WS is 1 in 13 years. They've kept my interest far more often.

IMO you build in order to get close enough to be a player or 2 away and then you attempt to
get those players. Sometimes that's just a rental as Verlander and Scherzer once were.
But you need to be close. The Cards are getting there now, also opinion. Imagine rentals of 1 bat and 1 SP.

[Strummer Jones]

I think they need a foot in one bucket and one foot in another bucket.

I would sell off some of the veteran pitching. One of Fedde/Mikolas (hopefully Mikolas) and Matz. I think if you could find a deal for both to go to the same team, especially if you eat some salary, you could bring back a decent haul not unlike what we got from Texas in the Montgomery deal. All of those three have performed well. IF you get rid of Matz, I'd like to bring in another tweeneer long relief man. This is the first time in a while that we haven't had our long relief guy be the "under glass" reliever, and I think it's been good for everyone involved.

If Fedde is the one who stays, then he's someone I think hard about QO-ing.

Now, as of today, I keep Hels. We're playing good ball, and I don't want these young guys to feel as though they've been given up on. And I think there's more value psychologically by keeping Helsley and then giving him the QO next year, too. This calculus changes if the team nosedives.

That's what I'm most concerned with--psychological impact. I think it's easy to sell losing Fedde/Mikolas and Matz to the team, especially when you've got someone like McGreevy who's done everything he's been asked when he's up here. I think you can sell that to the young guys. I think that's a harder sell with trading Helsley, because we don't have a ready made replacement. Graceffo is being groomed for that, I think, but he's not there yet. I very much see him in the same spot Helsley was in the beginning of his career.

[Ozziesfan41]

If they're where they are now or better, then add to the bullpen.

If they go into a tailspin and fall way behind the scrubbies, then see what you can get for Helsley, Fedde, Matz and NADO (Mikolas too if he'd waive the NTC).

But don't just give NADO away for salary relief, he has to being back a quality prospect.

Then he will be a cardinal for the rest of his career because no one is going to trade a quality prospect for him

Good, his reaming contract is only $19M (-$5M from Rockies + $3M deferred) and $15M.

I'm not giving him away just so BDWJr can buy another Hollywood mansion.

I would say trade him if you can because he wasnt good last season hes doing worse this season and with Weatherholt coming and Saggese theres no real reason to keep a glove first light hitting third baseman but just my opinion. If he were a leader maybe they should keep him but he is not

He's been league a league average hitter (100 OPS+ for 2024-2025) Ozzie.

And he has played Gold Glove level defense last season (+10 OAA/+9 DRS) and this year (+5 OAA is #1 in MLB/+3 DRS).

A 100 OPS+ hitter that plays GG defense has value in the trade market, no way I just give him away for salary relief BDWJr is going to pocket given the slip in attendance.

(And IMO JJW is ticketed for 2nd base, not 3rd and Saggese isn't a fulltime fit at 3rd base, he's a SUP)

JMO

But the question is will he continue to be a league average hitter the rest of this season and the next two seasons. He has declined rather sharply the last two years if he continues to decline it will be horrible in two years even at 18 million. It might be best to trade him while you can at least say he is a league average hitter instead of waiting on him to crater then be stuck with him because the contract plays. But you want to keep him and thats your opinion and its fine

[rockondlouie]

If they're where they are now or better, then add to the bullpen.

If they go into a tailspin and fall way behind the scrubbies, then see what you can get for Helsley, Fedde, Matz and NADO (Mikolas too if he'd waive the NTC).

But don't just give NADO away for salary relief, he has to being back a quality prospect.

Then he will be a cardinal for the rest of his career because no one is going to trade a quality prospect for him

Good, his reaming contract is only $19M (-$5M from Rockies + $3M deferred) and $15M.

I'm not giving him away just so BDWJr can buy another Hollywood mansion.

I would say trade him if you can because he wasnt good last season hes doing worse this season and with Weatherholt coming and Saggese theres no real reason to keep a glove first light hitting third baseman but just my opinion. If he were a leader maybe they should keep him but he is not

He's been league a league average hitter (100 OPS+ for 2024-2025) Ozzie.

And he has played Gold Glove level defense last season (+10 OAA/+9 DRS) and this year (+5 OAA is #1 in MLB/+3 DRS).

A 100 OPS+ hitter that plays GG defense has value in the trade market, no way I just give him away for salary relief BDWJr is going to pocket given the slip in attendance.

(And IMO JJW is ticketed for 2nd base, not 3rd and Saggese isn't a fulltime fit at 3rd base, he's a SUP)

JMO

But the question is will he continue to be a league average hitter the rest of this season and the next two seasons. He has declined rather sharply the last two years if he continues to decline it will be horrible in two years even at 18 million. It might be best to trade him while you can at least say he is a league average hitter instead of waiting on him to crater then be stuck with him because the contract plays. But you want to keep him and thats your opinion and its fine

No one knows

Maybe he goes all Goldy the way he's doing w/the Yankees

(Hey a reach but staying positive)

I have no issue dealing him, just NOT giving him away for salary relief w/no guarantees BDWJr is going to re-invest the savings.

[craviduce]

Sell...stay the course. Get something, tangible now/deadline. Don't gamble on a Qualifying Offer attached to Helsley. He won't likely meet the parameters set forth to get a Compensation pick in round 1 or 2, and runs the risk of not being signed at all with that albatross. There was almost Reliever market in this previous offseason, and there probably will be less of one with the 2027 work stoppage looming. Fedde should get you an okay prospect.

Trade Matz and Mikolas for scraps/ IFA Pool money. Keeping them to the end of the season, you get nothing let them walk.

[okcardfan]

So many of these posts debate whether or not to trade Arenado.

HELLO: He had a no-trade clause and has had only a few teams he'd be willing to go to. Apparently none of them are interested in him. He has said he wants to stay in St. Louis.

What's the point of discussing trading him when, at this point, it's not in the realm of possibility?

Same with Mikolas and Gray and Contreras.

Hopefully Bloom knows better than to hand out NTC deals. Better not to get a player if it requires a NTC, imo.

[renostl]

Sell...stay the course. Get something, tangible now/deadline. Don't gamble on a Qualifying Offer attached to Helsley. He won't likely meet the parameters set forth to get a Compensation pick in round 1 or 2, and runs the risk of not being signed at all with that albatross. There was almost Reliever market in this previous offseason, and there probably will be less of one with the 2027 work stoppage looming. Fedde should get you an okay prospect.

Trade Matz and Mikolas for scraps/ IFA Pool money. Keeping them to the end of the season, you get nothing let them walk.

What IF

Cards extend Hels 3 yrs since the market is down?
SP's will be needed in 2026. Not sure what Fedde gets, but 3-4 yrs for $45 +/- million
would be something to consider. IMO. A cheaper Miles role.

Mikolas has a tiny market with his NTC possibly no market. Matz yes! move regardless of where the team is
he is creating a possible opportunity for the Cards, possibly his biggest contribution to the organization
will come from the return received in any trade. SG is the more impacting contract if that's a goal, but the NTC
makes him similar to Miles.

There's worse things than losing a player for nothing. Better stated, there's positives in the organization if
winning is a goal. The Payroll is clean enough going forward that it shouldn't limit possibilities.
Attrition alone takes another $40 million off payroll, plenty of might if they want to use it.

[Carp4Cy]

When are teams sellers 1 game out of Division title? I’d dump NA, only because he’s not productive and there are better options

There aren't better options unless we are trading for one. He has like the 5th highest WAR on the team.

Move Donny to 3b……stick Sagessee, JJ, or even Gorman at 2nd….tired of looking at him

Saggesse has more trade value though, and Nado has a higher WAR. Had Half our RBIs on Tuesday night. We lost because only half our bullpen is compentent.