Demidov and Hutson

[seattleblue]

It's a chocolate and peanut butter argument. You need both. At a minimum you must have strong drafting wherever you pick and the Blues are generally pretty good at this which is why it's a worthy pursuit to watch those drafted players develop after they've been picked. I don't have complaints about the Blues draft team even if they make a pick here or there I think is the wrong one. Also, later whether I end up being right or wrong about whether they are right or wrong, I recognize they have a whole thought process and you can infer the qualities in players that the scouting group is prioritizing, such as last year when it was defensemen with size and skating ability.

You need players who can be anchors and drivers on your roster. They can be found anywhere and the data also clearly shows that overall as a general principle the higher the pick the better the chances of impact. What do people really want to hear with this, because both principles are true and no amount of argument or personality conflict makes them untrue.

[seattleblue]

Burns is having a good year in the O, but it's hard to tell defensively how that ever translates from that league. still too early. It's easy to see guys lighting up the scoreboard on offense and if they do something around half that in the AHL, you know they will belong.

It is way more satisfying in terms of "action" when I'm watching a forward, generally. The two defensemen who stand out to me are Lindstein and Burns, with Fischer/Jiricek being more dynamic offensively. I've watched a lot of both their games this year (Burns' slight underdog Kingston team is down 2-1 in the second round to Barrie, Lindstein's first SHL finals game is 8:15am central on Saturday) and defensive defensemen just don't get a lot of touches with the puck in general and when they do they are making simple smart plays if they're playing well.

But both of these two players look like future NHLers to me. Burns is more of a 5-7 and Lindstein is very very likely to be a top 4 NHL defenseman if not a top pairing LHD like Brodin. Burns is just a rugged ginger back there and it's a different feel when he's on the ice, like things are stable. Over time it has lent his game a quality of confidence and poise that we want to see in a primarily defensive NHL defenseman. Lindstein is already so poised, that part is solid so it'll be slow growth of his offensive contributions. He's not an aggressive attacking offensive defenseman creating chances with his skating, but he has a sense of when to be an opportunist when it's safe. I think that is why the Forsling comparison got thrown out by his coach. Because he's got such a strong base already, he will add capacity as he gains experience in the NHL.

[a smell of green grass]

It's a chocolate and peanut butter argument. You need both. At a minimum you must have strong drafting wherever you pick and the Blues are generally pretty good at this which is why it's a worthy pursuit to watch those drafted players develop after they've been picked. I don't have complaints about the Blues draft team even if they make a pick here or there I think is the wrong one. Also, later whether I end up being right or wrong about whether they are right or wrong, I recognize they have a whole thought process and you can infer the qualities in players that the scouting group is prioritizing, such as last year when it was defensemen with size and skating ability.

You need players who can be anchors and drivers on your roster. They can be found anywhere and the data also clearly shows that overall as a general principle the higher the pick the better the chances of impact. What do people really want to hear with this, because both principles are true and no amount of argument or personality conflict makes them untrue.

Blues fans love Broberg and Holloway. Unfortunately, they don't ask how we get more like them. Embarrassingly, some believe that we will just offer sheet the hell out of the NHL in the future.

Blues see the disaster of Perunovich. Unfortunately, they don't ask how we get less of them.

Blues will soon see the disaster of Jiricek. Unfortunately, they don't ask how we get less of them.

The Blues and their fans deserve a can't miss hockey star to watch. I love lunch pale players as much as everyone else, but I want the cream on the top too.

[callitwhatyouwant]

Burns is having a good year in the O, but it's hard to tell defensively how that ever translates from that league. still too early. It's easy to see guys lighting up the scoreboard on offense and if they do something around half that in the AHL, you know they will belong.

It is way more satisfying in terms of "action" when I'm watching a forward, generally. The two defensemen who stand out to me are Lindstein and Burns, with Fischer/Jiricek being more dynamic offensively. I've watched a lot of both their games this year (Burns' slight underdog Kingston team is down 2-1 in the second round to Barrie, Lindstein's first SHL finals game is 8:15am central on Saturday) and defensive defensemen just don't get a lot of touches with the puck in general and when they do they are making simple smart plays if they're playing well.

But both of these two players look like future NHLers to me. Burns is more of a 5-7 and Lindstein is very very likely to be a top 4 NHL defenseman if not a top pairing LHD like Brodin. Burns is just a rugged ginger back there and it's a different feel when he's on the ice, like things are stable. Over time it has lent his game a quality of confidence and poise that we want to see in a primarily defensive NHL defenseman. Lindstein is already so poised, that part is solid so it'll be slow growth of his offensive contributions. He's not an aggressive attacking offensive defenseman creating chances with his skating, but he has a sense of when to be an opportunist when it's safe. I think that is why the Forsling comparison got thrown out by his coach. Because he's got such a strong base already, he will add capacity as he gains experience in the NHL.

thanks for the analysis. I always defer to those who follow those leagues more closely over my world competitions or 1 game breakdowns that i seek out from time to time on youtube from some upstart "analysts" of talent. Even way back at camp, the guy that everyone on the team and front office was talking about was lindstein. That's over snuggs and dvorsky. They were all saying how this dude looked like he belong today. They said he was making special plays routinely. Encouraging to hear that he is still looking the part. I firmly believe they went after Jiricek because of the boom bust reward. They figured that they had a solid can't miss guy in lindstein, so they went for the home run with Jiricek and if it pans out, you have a legit pairing. Adding Broberg to that mix can get a Blues fan extremely excited.

[seattleblue]

It's a chocolate and peanut butter argument. You need both. At a minimum you must have strong drafting wherever you pick and the Blues are generally pretty good at this which is why it's a worthy pursuit to watch those drafted players develop after they've been picked. I don't have complaints about the Blues draft team even if they make a pick here or there I think is the wrong one. Also, later whether I end up being right or wrong about whether they are right or wrong, I recognize they have a whole thought process and you can infer the qualities in players that the scouting group is prioritizing, such as last year when it was defensemen with size and skating ability.

You need players who can be anchors and drivers on your roster. They can be found anywhere and the data also clearly shows that overall as a general principle the higher the pick the better the chances of impact. What do people really want to hear with this, because both principles are true and no amount of argument or personality conflict makes them untrue.

Blues fans love Broberg and Holloway. Unfortunately, they don't ask how we get more like them. Embarrassingly, some believe that we will just offer sheet the hell out of the NHL in the future.

Blues see the disaster of Perunovich. Unfortunately, they don't ask how we get less of them.

Blues will soon see the disaster of Jiricek. Unfortunately, they don't ask how we get less of them.

The Blues and their fans deserve a can't miss hockey star to watch. I love lunch pale players as much as everyone else, but I want the cream on the top too.

Neither side is ceding ground. They're cutting off their nose to spite their face because they're battling with you, but you're also not giving what the Blues have done with their picks enough credit IMO. Perunovich wasn't a "disaster," he was a second round pick. We've biffed second round picks before and we''ll do it again. Brett Ponich, Aaron Palushaj were the first two of many names that swim up. My own objection to the Perunovich experience was throwing good money after bad. But by the same token you could have said that about Tucker too so I see their thinking on it. What they wanted Perunovich to be was their Hutson.

On Jiricek everyone's aware of the whole iffiness of that one. It's not settled yet but let's say it doesn't work out. I don't think you've made the case successfully that the draft team as a whole is bad. The Blues really have helped themselves with shrewd drafting and few first round busts. They get more leeway to make the best picks with what they've got. I am super happy the Blues got into the playoffs, to me 18 is a significantly better pick than 16 because it allows players at a key development juncture to get an upswing-then-disappointment ride to fuel next year and beyond, it is worth it.

[seattleblue]

Burns is having a good year in the O, but it's hard to tell defensively how that ever translates from that league. still too early. It's easy to see guys lighting up the scoreboard on offense and if they do something around half that in the AHL, you know they will belong.

It is way more satisfying in terms of "action" when I'm watching a forward, generally. The two defensemen who stand out to me are Lindstein and Burns, with Fischer/Jiricek being more dynamic offensively. I've watched a lot of both their games this year (Burns' slight underdog Kingston team is down 2-1 in the second round to Barrie, Lindstein's first SHL finals game is 8:15am central on Saturday) and defensive defensemen just don't get a lot of touches with the puck in general and when they do they are making simple smart plays if they're playing well.

But both of these two players look like future NHLers to me. Burns is more of a 5-7 and Lindstein is very very likely to be a top 4 NHL defenseman if not a top pairing LHD like Brodin. Burns is just a rugged ginger back there and it's a different feel when he's on the ice, like things are stable. Over time it has lent his game a quality of confidence and poise that we want to see in a primarily defensive NHL defenseman. Lindstein is already so poised, that part is solid so it'll be slow growth of his offensive contributions. He's not an aggressive attacking offensive defenseman creating chances with his skating, but he has a sense of when to be an opportunist when it's safe. I think that is why the Forsling comparison got thrown out by his coach. Because he's got such a strong base already, he will add capacity as he gains experience in the NHL.

thanks for the analysis. I always defer to those who follow those leagues more closely over my world competitions or 1 game breakdowns that i seek out from time to time on youtube from some upstart "analysts" of talent. Even way back at camp, the guy that everyone on the team and front office was talking about was lindstein. That's over snuggs and dvorsky. They were all saying how this dude looked like he belong today. They said he was making special plays routinely. Encouraging to hear that he is still looking the part. I firmly believe they went after Jiricek because of the boom bust reward. They figured that they had a solid can't miss guy in lindstein, so they went for the home run with Jiricek and if it pans out, you have a legit pairing. Adding Broberg to that mix can get a Blues fan extremely excited.

Next year I plan to focus more on Ralph with Michigan State. St. Cloud games this year were a bridge too far since they were bad, and he was not involved all that much when I did peek in on his games.

[Barksdale's People]

I thought we could take him at his word.

viewtopic.php?t=1510647

It’s sad when someone can’t even be honest with themselves. Hope he gets the help he needs.

[a smell of green grass]

but you're also not giving what the Blues have done with their picks enough credit IMO

I really like our young prospects. I have fallen in love with each of them. They are all quality young men, and I'm glad that they wear our jersey.

However, I'm not going to let that hide the obvious. They don't match up well to the marquis players around the league. They never will. While it would be great to have the best 3rd- and 4th-line in the NHL, I want the best 1st-line and power play. That is way more important and way more exclusive to have. I want to see fast skating, domination, and I want to see the other team's players go flying when we hit them.

The best thing that could happen to our existing recruits is to have the next Ovechkin skating with them. The worst thing that could happen to our existing recruits is that they become the next Barbashev and Oshie.

[seattleblue]

but you're also not giving what the Blues have done with their picks enough credit IMO

I really like our young prospects. I have fallen in love with each of them. They are all quality young men, and I'm glad that they wear our jersey.

However, I'm not going to let that hide the obvious. They don't match up well to the marquis players around the league. They never will. While it would be great to have the best 3rd- and 4th-line in the NHL, I want the best 1st-line and power play. That is way more important and way more exclusive to have. I want to see fast skating, domination, and I want to see the other team's players go flying when we hit them.

The best thing that could happen to our existing recruits is to have the next Ovechkin skating with them. The worst thing that could happen to our existing recruits is that they become the next Barbashev and Oshie.

Setting aside that both Barbashev and Oshie helped earn Cups, let's take stock of the apparent situation and try to get to the Cup from where that is instead of where anyone wished it would be. Up until they went 20-4-3 to finish this season, there was a legitimate chance the team could have picked around #7 or even won the lottery. That corner has been turned though now and we're in a new era. We just are. Things change. This team was able to meld and a viable second line emerged which means we are now going to have playoff runs because the key forwards are young and core.

So ... the question is moot! You can pick at what you perceive as a scab endlessly but the reality is they aren't going to be picking in the top 5 or 10 for awhile unless they acquire someone's first rounder there in some trade we don't know about yet. It's going to have to be either a hockey trade that works out, an opportunist RFA stealing moment like Holloway/Broberg, or UFA signing, or some freak luck at the exact right timing when some 6th rounder miraculously hits or one of the current draftees far exceeds his current projection.

[a smell of green grass]

but you're also not giving what the Blues have done with their picks enough credit IMO

I really like our young prospects. I have fallen in love with each of them. They are all quality young men, and I'm glad that they wear our jersey.

However, I'm not going to let that hide the obvious. They don't match up well to the marquis players around the league. They never will. While it would be great to have the best 3rd- and 4th-line in the NHL, I want the best 1st-line and power play. That is way more important and way more exclusive to have. I want to see fast skating, domination, and I want to see the other team's players go flying when we hit them.

The best thing that could happen to our existing recruits is to have the next Ovechkin skating with them. The worst thing that could happen to our existing recruits is that they become the next Barbashev and Oshie.

Setting aside that both Barbashev and Oshie helped earn Cups, let's take stock of the apparent situation and try to get to the Cup from where that is instead of where anyone wished it would be. Up until they went 20-4-3 to finish this season, there was a legitimate chance the team could have picked around #7 or even won the lottery. That corner has been turned though now and we're in a new era. We just are. Things change. This team was able to meld and a viable second line emerged which means we are now going to have playoff runs because the key forwards are young and core.

So ... the question is moot! You can pick at what you perceive as a scab endlessly but the reality is they aren't going to be picking in the top 5 or 10 for awhile unless they acquire someone's first rounder there in some trade we don't know about yet. It's going to have to be either a hockey trade that works out, an opportunist RFA stealing moment like Holloway/Broberg, or UFA signing, or some freak luck at the exact right timing when some 6th rounder miraculously hits or one of the current draftees far exceeds his current projection.

The Blues have not turned a corner. They have succeeded in getting to the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. The Blues have succeeded in acquiring a roster that will keep them middle of the pack for another 5 years.

Let's see how well the "new era Blues" do against one of the best teams in the NHL in the playoffs - when everyone is playing hard.

[Stlcardsblues]

The St. Louis Blues have won 52.1 percent of the time since 2020-21.
The Montreal Canadiens have won 38.3 percent of the time since 2020-21.

Pay close attention, Blues Fans. Montreal has won 1 FEWER game out of every 10 than St Louis since 2020.

For that little amount of "TANKING", Montreal fans will now be enjoying Demidov and Hutson for 10 years+.

But like it was with Ovechkin, you can see the best NHL players once or twice a year when they visit.

Didn’t you say you were leaving until Armstrong was gone?

Both teams have bright futures with exciting high-end young talent. But we saw you won’t give proper credit for the high-end young talent the Blues have.

[seattleblue]

but you're also not giving what the Blues have done with their picks enough credit IMO

I really like our young prospects. I have fallen in love with each of them. They are all quality young men, and I'm glad that they wear our jersey.

However, I'm not going to let that hide the obvious. They don't match up well to the marquis players around the league. They never will. While it would be great to have the best 3rd- and 4th-line in the NHL, I want the best 1st-line and power play. That is way more important and way more exclusive to have. I want to see fast skating, domination, and I want to see the other team's players go flying when we hit them.

The best thing that could happen to our existing recruits is to have the next Ovechkin skating with them. The worst thing that could happen to our existing recruits is that they become the next Barbashev and Oshie.

Setting aside that both Barbashev and Oshie helped earn Cups, let's take stock of the apparent situation and try to get to the Cup from where that is instead of where anyone wished it would be. Up until they went 20-4-3 to finish this season, there was a legitimate chance the team could have picked around #7 or even won the lottery. That corner has been turned though now and we're in a new era. We just are. Things change. This team was able to meld and a viable second line emerged which means we are now going to have playoff runs because the key forwards are young and core.

So ... the question is moot! You can pick at what you perceive as a scab endlessly but the reality is they aren't going to be picking in the top 5 or 10 for awhile unless they acquire someone's first rounder there in some trade we don't know about yet. It's going to have to be either a hockey trade that works out, an opportunist RFA stealing moment like Holloway/Broberg, or UFA signing, or some freak luck at the exact right timing when some 6th rounder miraculously hits or one of the current draftees far exceeds his current projection.

The Blues have not turned a corner. They have succeeded in getting to the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. The Blues have succeeded in acquiring a roster that will keep them middle of the pack for another 5 years.

Let's see how well the "new era Blues" do against one of the best teams in the NHL in the playoffs - when everyone is playing hard.

I don't think the Blues are a full scale contender yet. I would be happily surprised with a series win or even a 7 game series this year. But I expect a playoff push next year and for a few years, and I didn't originally expect one this year. I had the Blues around 9-11 out of 16 in the conf, now they could comfortably be a 4-8 team in the conference with two established lines, good team defense and competitors in net. They haven't turned all corners but they have turned "a" corner IMO. If I'm right and that's where they are, 4th-8th in conference, they still have to get both continued improvement from within and finishing moves by the GM. I think the first is likely and I think whatever happens with the second, I think they're getting more dialed in on the piece(s) they are missing to finish off the puzzle.

Now, if you ask me how I truly feel about the success of the second one my real honest answer is I don't know. I know the reasons I'm skeptical and I know that a happy surprise is in the wheelhouse of this GM also. I am eager to see how it unfolds.

[a smell of green grass]

but you're also not giving what the Blues have done with their picks enough credit IMO

I really like our young prospects. I have fallen in love with each of them. They are all quality young men, and I'm glad that they wear our jersey.

However, I'm not going to let that hide the obvious. They don't match up well to the marquis players around the league. They never will. While it would be great to have the best 3rd- and 4th-line in the NHL, I want the best 1st-line and power play. That is way more important and way more exclusive to have. I want to see fast skating, domination, and I want to see the other team's players go flying when we hit them.

The best thing that could happen to our existing recruits is to have the next Ovechkin skating with them. The worst thing that could happen to our existing recruits is that they become the next Barbashev and Oshie.

Setting aside that both Barbashev and Oshie helped earn Cups, let's take stock of the apparent situation and try to get to the Cup from where that is instead of where anyone wished it would be. Up until they went 20-4-3 to finish this season, there was a legitimate chance the team could have picked around #7 or even won the lottery. That corner has been turned though now and we're in a new era. We just are. Things change. This team was able to meld and a viable second line emerged which means we are now going to have playoff runs because the key forwards are young and core.

So ... the question is moot! You can pick at what you perceive as a scab endlessly but the reality is they aren't going to be picking in the top 5 or 10 for awhile unless they acquire someone's first rounder there in some trade we don't know about yet. It's going to have to be either a hockey trade that works out, an opportunist RFA stealing moment like Holloway/Broberg, or UFA signing, or some freak luck at the exact right timing when some 6th rounder miraculously hits or one of the current draftees far exceeds his current projection.

The Blues have not turned a corner. They have succeeded in getting to the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. The Blues have succeeded in acquiring a roster that will keep them middle of the pack for another 5 years.

Let's see how well the "new era Blues" do against one of the best teams in the NHL in the playoffs - when everyone is playing hard.

I don't think the Blues are a full scale contender yet. I would be happily surprised with a series win or even a 7 game series this year. But I expect a playoff push next year and for a few years, and I didn't originally expect one this year. I had the Blues around 9-11 out of 16 in the conf, now they could comfortably be a 4-8 team in the conference with two established lines, good team defense and competitors in net. They haven't turned all corners but they have turned "a" corner IMO. If I'm right and that's where they are, 4th-8th in conference, they still have to get both continued improvement from within and finishing moves by the GM. I think the first is likely and I think whatever happens with the second, I think they're getting more dialed in on the piece(s) they are missing to finish off the puzzle.

Now, if you ask me how I truly feel about the success of the second one my real honest answer is I don't know. I know the reasons I'm skeptical and I know that a happy surprise is in the wheelhouse of this GM also. I am eager to see how it unfolds.

I understand your opinion, and I hope that it is correct. I'm not saying that there is no chance for that.

While I don't see those rose petals, I admire that you have conviction in your opinion. It's honestly encouraging really. I hope that your Army is more accurate than my picture of him.

[Pierre McGuire]

I’m most excited about Ralph. I truly believe there is something there and no not just because I had him as a 2nd round target for the Blues… He showed a lot in the WJC’s when he was called upon. Once he fills out and matures, I think he could become a defensive force on the blue line.

[IsDurbanodoingtime]

but you're also not giving what the Blues have done with their picks enough credit IMO

I really like our young prospects. I have fallen in love with each of them. They are all quality young men, and I'm glad that they wear our jersey.

However, I'm not going to let that hide the obvious. They don't match up well to the marquis players around the league. They never will. While it would be great to have the best 3rd- and 4th-line in the NHL, I want the best 1st-line and power play. That is way more important and way more exclusive to have. I want to see fast skating, domination, and I want to see the other team's players go flying when we hit them.

The best thing that could happen to our existing recruits is to have the next Ovechkin skating with them. The worst thing that could happen to our existing recruits is that they become the next Barbashev and Oshie.

Setting aside that both Barbashev and Oshie helped earn Cups, let's take stock of the apparent situation and try to get to the Cup from where that is instead of where anyone wished it would be. Up until they went 20-4-3 to finish this season, there was a legitimate chance the team could have picked around #7 or even won the lottery. That corner has been turned though now and we're in a new era. We just are. Things change. This team was able to meld and a viable second line emerged which means we are now going to have playoff runs because the key forwards are young and core.

So ... the question is moot! You can pick at what you perceive as a scab endlessly but the reality is they aren't going to be picking in the top 5 or 10 for awhile unless they acquire someone's first rounder there in some trade we don't know about yet. It's going to have to be either a hockey trade that works out, an opportunist RFA stealing moment like Holloway/Broberg, or UFA signing, or some freak luck at the exact right timing when some 6th rounder miraculously hits or one of the current draftees far exceeds his current projection.

The Blues have not turned a corner. They have succeeded in getting to the playoffs by the skin of their teeth. The Blues have succeeded in acquiring a roster that will keep them middle of the pack for another 5 years.

Let's see how well the "new era Blues" do against one of the best teams in the NHL in the playoffs - when everyone is playing hard.

I don't think the Blues are a full scale contender yet. I would be happily surprised with a series win or even a 7 game series this year. But I expect a playoff push next year and for a few years, and I didn't originally expect one this year. I had the Blues around 9-11 out of 16 in the conf, now they could comfortably be a 4-8 team in the conference with two established lines, good team defense and competitors in net. They haven't turned all corners but they have turned "a" corner IMO. If I'm right and that's where they are, 4th-8th in conference, they still have to get both continued improvement from within and finishing moves by the GM. I think the first is likely and I think whatever happens with the second, I think they're getting more dialed in on the piece(s) they are missing to finish off the puzzle.

Now, if you ask me how I truly feel about the success of the second one my real honest answer is I don't know. I know the reasons I'm skeptical and I know that a happy surprise is in the wheelhouse of this GM also. I am eager to see how it unfolds.

Although the Blues are looking turn the corner with their prospects ( and the addition of Snuggerud and Dvorsky into the mix), you cannot ignore that it's going to still be a dogfight frankly for at least 12 teams in the western conference in upcoming years. We essentially supplanted Nashville and Vancouver who took big steps back but can we count on them to stay down? Utah is charging and will only get better. Are any teams ahead of us in the conference realistically looking to drop off next season? I know that I am getting ahead and let's enjoy this playoff but the road to the post season is not getting any easier next season.

[PPG]

ASOGG- In comparing Montreal to the Blues the last 5 years, I missed the logic. Saying we were JUST one game better for every 10 games played, doesn't sound like much until you look at the actual numbers.
One game out of 10 equates to 8 games per year, or a total of 16 points. With all of the parity in the NHL, 16 points is huge.
For instance, if the Blues JUST had only 16 more points, they would have the 2nd best record in the entire league, just a few points behind Winnipeg.
Conversely, if they had 16 fewer points, they would have the 23rd best record and would be drafting in the top 10 this year at #9 overall.

And most every team likes to break down there season in 5 or 10 game segments when they try and set reasonable goals for them to achieve.
Just going 6-4 every 10 games for instance, means you finish with at least 98 points and a guaranteed playoff spot.
Conversely, going 4-6 every 10 games leaves you with 64 points & guarantees you a lottery pick every year. This year would be no worse than #3 behind SJ & Chicago.