This organization deserves failure

Welcome to STLtoday.com's forum for fans of the St. Louis Cardinals.

Moderators: STLtoday Forum Moderators, Cards Talk Moderators

icon
Forum User
Posts: 3360
Joined: 23 May 2024 17:18 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by icon »

Baseball Savant wrote: 18 Mar 2025 23:07 pm Cranny

It’s the truth

Sometimes it’s ugly

Deal with it
Yeah, BDW Jr. seems to have been fine with Mozeliak putting a torch to tens of millions of his dollars via mismanagement on a grand scale that has decimated this organization. Just look at all the bad contracts/extensions. And look at the degradation of the minor leagues on his watch. And look at the pathetic field manager he has chosen.

Either BDW Jr. has not been vigilant enough to let the organization slip this badly under Mozeliak, or he just doesn't care anymore. We'll all see what happens with Bloom in charge after this season -- a fresh start or the same old BDW Jr. way of doing things.
WLTFE
Forum User
Posts: 1590
Joined: 23 May 2024 14:49 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by WLTFE »

Baseball Savant wrote: 18 Mar 2025 21:34 pm When number 5 and number 10 walked out the door, the winning attitude ended

BDW and his sweater buddy Mo decided after 2011, it was their way or no way.

They shove nostalgia, red jackets and bobbleheads down your throat, they will bring back washed up ex Cards for kicks and giggles

They have not developed pitching or hitting labs like other teams.

Look at the Shildt firing, he probably hit a nerve with the Arrogant owner and GM and was dismissed pronto.

BDW should sell the team to a new age owner with a hunger to win, not one stuck in nostalgia and b.s.

Took the fan base a decade to see the light, but the tables have turned

Boo the arrogant owner and GM on opening day, send a message loud and clear

Millionaire misery index will kick in hard on BDW
+1...DeTwit will realize what Mo-ran has done when he sees the empty seats ..be prepared to hear from the front office (donkey) kissers!
Idaho Cards
Forum User
Posts: 113
Joined: 23 May 2024 19:50 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Idaho Cards »

Cranny wrote: 18 Mar 2025 08:26 am
BrockFloodMaris wrote: 18 Mar 2025 07:13 am
desertrat23 wrote: 17 Mar 2025 21:59 pm
RamFan08NY wrote: 17 Mar 2025 21:13 pm The players have to want to come to your team. How many middle America teams are attracting these guys? If you're not near one of the oceans, players don't want to be there. The Cardinals are in the same non-attractive boat that about 26 other teams arer in. How do you fix it? The only way you even have a chance at them is by extreme over spending, and that might not even work.
Show them you’re serious about winning. Build the best player development system in baseball, not let it rot through cost-cutting. Make reasonable offers to free agents, not lowballs. And when they don’t sign, make public statements like “X is a great player, and we wish him the best. We look forward to continuing to try to show premier free agents why we’re the Yankees of the NL and a place people want to play.” Ever notice how when the big boys get signed, Mo always says “we were never really in it?” He’s telling the whole industry that they’re not interested!

Above all, make every move, every statement, every transaction, send the message that you want to win a championship. Not a wild card, not a division, a ring. Even if you fall short, you’re showing the fans, the other teams, the agents, and the players that you’re serious. We haven’t done that in years.
I agree with you, rat. Deliver a winning message to everyone. Strive for greatness. It hasn’t been that long ago. Some of us remember.
They strove for greatness when they traded for Goldy and Arenado.
Idaho Cards
Forum User
Posts: 113
Joined: 23 May 2024 19:50 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Idaho Cards »

I think Cranny's statement in a past post is very telling:
They strove for greatness when they traded for Goldy and Arenado.
The Cardinals, no doubt, have been striving to improve their team, but unfortunately they have no drivers or mechanics for their Miatas or Mazarattis, In other words, your garage can be full of nice cars and equipment, but if you don't know how to drive them or take care of them, they are any other car.

Each organization has different departments that are responsible for the on-the-field product. Acquisition, Research, Development, Analytics, Advanced Scouting, Baseball-Specific Strength Training, Position-Specific Development, Offensive Development, Body Assessments, Nutrition, Baseball Sports Psychology, etc. Tieing all those together and giving each player and coach an opportunity to be successful can be negated if the organization has a "bad culture."

While speaking this week with two people involved in MLB Development, it was told to me, "The Cardinals are known as an organization that is in the mud." They're ability to value human capitol and create value has vaulted them to the bottom of MLB organizations.

To give the POBO a farewell tour for an entire year instead of ripping off the bandaid and improving now, is further proof that the top of the Cardinal food-chain values themselves over the people under them.
Cranny
Forum User
Posts: 4028
Joined: 24 May 2024 09:26 am

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Cranny »

Idaho Cards wrote: 19 Mar 2025 08:49 am I think Cranny's statement in a past post is very telling:
They strove for greatness when they traded for Goldy and Arenado.
The Cardinals, no doubt, have been striving to improve their team, but unfortunately they have no drivers or mechanics for their Miatas or Mazarattis, In other words, your garage can be full of nice cars and equipment, but if you don't know how to drive them or take care of them, they are any other car.

Each organization has different departments that are responsible for the on-the-field product. Acquisition, Research, Development, Analytics, Advanced Scouting, Baseball-Specific Strength Training, Position-Specific Development, Offensive Development, Body Assessments, Nutrition, Baseball Sports Psychology, etc. Tieing all those together and giving each player and coach an opportunity to be successful can be negated if the organization has a "bad culture."

While speaking this week with two people involved in MLB Development, it was told to me, "The Cardinals are known as an organization that is in the mud." They're ability to value human capitol and create value has vaulted them to the bottom of MLB organizations.

To give the POBO a farewell tour for an entire year instead of ripping off the bandaid and improving now, is further proof that the top of the Cardinal food-chain values themselves over the people under them.
It’s just awful, Idaho. Terrible.
desertrat23
Forum User
Posts: 840
Joined: 28 May 2024 18:12 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by desertrat23 »

Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 09:53 am
Idaho Cards wrote: 19 Mar 2025 08:49 am I think Cranny's statement in a past post is very telling:
They strove for greatness when they traded for Goldy and Arenado.
The Cardinals, no doubt, have been striving to improve their team, but unfortunately they have no drivers or mechanics for their Miatas or Mazarattis, In other words, your garage can be full of nice cars and equipment, but if you don't know how to drive them or take care of them, they are any other car.

Each organization has different departments that are responsible for the on-the-field product. Acquisition, Research, Development, Analytics, Advanced Scouting, Baseball-Specific Strength Training, Position-Specific Development, Offensive Development, Body Assessments, Nutrition, Baseball Sports Psychology, etc. Tieing all those together and giving each player and coach an opportunity to be successful can be negated if the organization has a "bad culture."

While speaking this week with two people involved in MLB Development, it was told to me, "The Cardinals are known as an organization that is in the mud." They're ability to value human capitol and create value has vaulted them to the bottom of MLB organizations.

To give the POBO a farewell tour for an entire year instead of ripping off the bandaid and improving now, is further proof that the top of the Cardinal food-chain values themselves over the people under them.
It’s just awful, Idaho. Terrible.
Glibness aside, I noticed you didn't disagree? And if you do, with which part?
Cranny
Forum User
Posts: 4028
Joined: 24 May 2024 09:26 am

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Cranny »

desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:09 am
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 09:53 am
Idaho Cards wrote: 19 Mar 2025 08:49 am I think Cranny's statement in a past post is very telling:
They strove for greatness when they traded for Goldy and Arenado.
The Cardinals, no doubt, have been striving to improve their team, but unfortunately they have no drivers or mechanics for their Miatas or Mazarattis, In other words, your garage can be full of nice cars and equipment, but if you don't know how to drive them or take care of them, they are any other car.

Each organization has different departments that are responsible for the on-the-field product. Acquisition, Research, Development, Analytics, Advanced Scouting, Baseball-Specific Strength Training, Position-Specific Development, Offensive Development, Body Assessments, Nutrition, Baseball Sports Psychology, etc. Tieing all those together and giving each player and coach an opportunity to be successful can be negated if the organization has a "bad culture."

While speaking this week with two people involved in MLB Development, it was told to me, "The Cardinals are known as an organization that is in the mud." They're ability to value human capitol and create value has vaulted them to the bottom of MLB organizations.

To give the POBO a farewell tour for an entire year instead of ripping off the bandaid and improving now, is further proof that the top of the Cardinal food-chain values themselves over the people under them.
It’s just awful, Idaho. Terrible.
Glibness aside, I noticed you didn't disagree? And if you do, with which part?
The Cardinals were set up to be a blending of several All Star players surrounded by up and coming young players. Then Goldy and Arenado slide backwards, as did Walker and Gorman. Lars, Donovan, and Winn did okay. The guys we traded for in July 2023 all went down with injuries. None of this could have been anticipated or foreseen.
skeezix
Forum User
Posts: 225
Joined: 23 May 2024 14:29 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by skeezix »

On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
Cranny
Forum User
Posts: 4028
Joined: 24 May 2024 09:26 am

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Cranny »

skeezix wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:23 am On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
On field performance has a direct relationship to ticket sales and tickets used.
desertrat23
Forum User
Posts: 840
Joined: 28 May 2024 18:12 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by desertrat23 »

Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:33 pm
skeezix wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:23 am On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
On field performance has a direct relationship to ticket sales and tickets used.
Which is why you’d think they would take it more seriously.
Cranny
Forum User
Posts: 4028
Joined: 24 May 2024 09:26 am

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Cranny »

desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:49 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:33 pm
skeezix wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:23 am On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
On field performance has a direct relationship to ticket sales and tickets used.
Which is why you’d think they would take it more seriously.
They are. That’s why they’re pouring so much money into player development.
desertrat23
Forum User
Posts: 840
Joined: 28 May 2024 18:12 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by desertrat23 »

Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 13:03 pm
desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:49 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:33 pm
skeezix wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:23 am On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
On field performance has a direct relationship to ticket sales and tickets used.
Which is why you’d think they would take it more seriously.
They are. That’s why they’re pouring so much money into player development.
Why did it take them falling into complete irrelevance in order to do that?
Cranny
Forum User
Posts: 4028
Joined: 24 May 2024 09:26 am

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Cranny »

desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 14:17 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 13:03 pm
desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:49 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:33 pm
skeezix wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:23 am On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
On field performance has a direct relationship to ticket sales and tickets used.
Which is why you’d think they would take it more seriously.
They are. That’s why they’re pouring so much money into player development.
Why did it take them falling into complete irrelevance in order to do that?
When did they last win 93 games? Was 2024 a season with more wins than losses? You need to check what irrelevance really means.
desertrat23
Forum User
Posts: 840
Joined: 28 May 2024 18:12 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by desertrat23 »

Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 14:37 pm
desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 14:17 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 13:03 pm
desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:49 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:33 pm
skeezix wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:23 am On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
On field performance has a direct relationship to ticket sales and tickets used.
Which is why you’d think they would take it more seriously.
They are. That’s why they’re pouring so much money into player development.
Why did it take them falling into complete irrelevance in order to do that?
When did they last win 93 games? Was 2024 a season with more wins than losses? You need to check what irrelevance really means.
If you think “more wins than losses” is all it takes to be relevant, you need to check what relevance really means.
Cranny
Forum User
Posts: 4028
Joined: 24 May 2024 09:26 am

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by Cranny »

desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 14:44 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 14:37 pm
desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 14:17 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 13:03 pm
desertrat23 wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:49 pm
Cranny wrote: 19 Mar 2025 12:33 pm
skeezix wrote: 19 Mar 2025 11:23 am On-field performance is immaterial. The only acceptable benchmark is total ticket sales. Money talks, and (blank) walks.
On field performance has a direct relationship to ticket sales and tickets used.
Which is why you’d think they would take it more seriously.
They are. That’s why they’re pouring so much money into player development.
Why did it take them falling into complete irrelevance in order to do that?
When did they last win 93 games? Was 2024 a season with more wins than losses? You need to check what irrelevance really means.
If you think “more wins than losses” is all it takes to be relevant, you need to check what relevance really means.
2024 - 83 wins
2023 - 70 wins
2022 - 93 wins
2021 - 90 wins
2020 - short season
2019 - 91 wins
2018 - 88 wins



88 or more wins in 4 of the last 6 full seasons.
That’s hardly irrelevant.
WLTFE
Forum User
Posts: 1590
Joined: 23 May 2024 14:49 pm

Re: This organization deserves failure

Post by WLTFE »

25 or 6 to 4
Post Reply