[x] closeYour Web Browser is not fully supported by this site (and many others). Please download and install one of the following: Firefox 3.5; Safari 4; Google Chrome; Internet Explorer 8

If SOPA/PIPA pass?

Share |
Post new topic Reply to topic
author
message

ckdelan209
Forum User
ckdelan209 is offline 
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 2560
Post subject: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 08:20 am
I have been quite vocal on here trying to raise awareness on the severe violation SOPA/PIPA put on our civil liberties and our current discussions on this very forum.

Simple question before a full explanation of the bill in lamens terms (Thanks to Gizmodo).

If Obama were to sign either bill, I can 100% guarantee he would not receive my vote. With this in mind, and the strong GOP support of the bill, specifically Mittens coming out for it, how can we work towards restoring our civil liberties? The ACLU is being laughed out of serious questions and the only candidates who have any respect for our civil liberties from the GOP side is Paul, formerly Huntsman and 3rd party candidate Johnson.

I am in the IT world, so this serious breach of my civil liberties could seriously alter my everyday life while also being clearly criminal action by our own government against it's own citizens. What is the solution?

If you hadn't heard of SOPA before, you probably have by now: Some of the internet's most influential sites—Reddit and Wikipedia among them—are going dark to protest the much-maligned anti-piracy bill. But other than being a very bad thing, what is SOPA? And what will it mean for you if it passes?

SOPA is an anti-piracy bill working its way through Congress...

House Judiciary Committee Chair and Texas Republican Lamar Smith, along with 12 co-sponsors, introduced the Stop Online Piracy Act on October 26th of last year. Debate on H.R. 3261, as it's formally known, has consisted of one hearing on November 16th and a "mark-up period" on December 15th, which was designed to make the bill more agreeable to both parties. Its counterpart in the Senate is the Protect IP Act (S. 968). Also known by its cuter-but-still-deadly name: PIPA. There will likely be a vote on PIPA next Wednesday; SOPA discussions had been placed on hold but will resume in February of this year.

...that would grant content creators extraordinary power over the internet...

The beating heart of SOPA is the ability of intellectual property owners (read: movie studios and record labels) to effectively pull the plug on foreign sites against whom they have a copyright claim. If Warner Bros., for example, says that a site in Italy is torrenting a copy of The Dark Knight, the studio could demand that Google remove that site from its search results, that PayPal no longer accept payments to or from that site, that ad services pull all ads and finances from it, and—most dangerously—that the site's ISP prevent people from even going there.

...which would go almost comedically unchecked...

Perhaps the most galling thing about SOPA in its original construction is that it let IP owners take these actions without a single court appearance or judicial sign-off. All it required was a single letter claiming a "good faith belief" that the target site has infringed on its content. Once Google or PayPal or whoever received the quarantine notice, they would have five days to either abide or to challenge the claim in court. Rights holders still have the power to request that kind of blockade, but in the most recent version of the bill the five day window has softened, and companies now would need the court's permission.

The language in SOPA implies that it's aimed squarely at foreign offenders; that's why it focuses on cutting off sources of funding and traffic (generally US-based) rather than directly attacking a targeted site (which is outside of US legal jurisdiction) directly. But that's just part of it.

...to the point of potentially creating an "Internet Blacklist"...

Here's the other thing: Payment processors or content providers like Visa or YouTube don't even need a letter shut off a site's resources. The bill's "vigilante" provision gives broad immunity to any provider who proactively shutters sites it considers to be infringers. Which means the MPAA just needs to publicize one list of infringing sites to get those sites blacklisted from the internet.

Potential for abuse is rampant. As Public Knowledge points out, Google could easily take it upon itself to delist every viral video site on the internet with a "good faith belief" that they're hosting copyrighted material. Leaving YouTube as the only major video portal. Comcast (an ISP) owns NBC (a content provider). Think they might have an interest in shuttering some rival domains? Under SOPA, they can do it without even asking for permission.

...while exacting a huge cost from nearly every site you use daily...

SOPA also includes an "anti-circumvention" clause, which holds that telling people how to work around SOPA is nearly as bad as violating its main provisions. In other words: if your status update links to The Pirate Bay, Facebook would be legally obligated to remove it. Ditto tweets, YouTube videos, Tumblr or WordPress posts, or sites indexed by Google. And if Google, Twitter, Wordpress, Facebook, etc. let it stand? They face a government "enjoinment." They could and would be shut down.

The resources it would take to self-police are monumental for established companies, and unattainable for start-ups. SOPA would censor every online social outlet you have, and prevent new ones from emerging.

...and potentially disappearing your entire digital life...

The party line on SOPA is that it only affects seedy off-shore torrent sites. That's false. As the big legal brains at Bricoleur point out, the potential collateral damage is huge. And it's you. Because while Facebook and Twitter have the financial wherewithal to stave off anti-circumvention shut down notices, the smaller sites you use to store your photos, your videos, and your thoughts may not. If the government decides any part of that site infringes on copyright and proves it in court? Poof. Your digital life is gone, and you can't get it back.

...while still managing to be both unnecessary and ineffective...

What's saddest about SOPA is that it's pointless on two fronts. In the US, the MPAA, and RIAA already have the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) to request that infringing material be taken down. We've all seen enough "video removed" messages to know that it works just fine.

As for the foreign operators, you might as well be throwing darts at a tse-tse fly. The poster child of overseas torrenting, Pirate Bay, has made it perfectly clear that they're not frightened in the least. And why should they be? Its proprietors have successfully evaded any technological attempt to shut them down so far. Its advertising partners aren't US-based, so they can't be choked out. But more important than Pirate Bay itself is the idea of Pirate Bay, and the hundreds or thousands of sites like it, as populous and resilient as mushrooms in a marsh. Forget the question of should SOPA succeed. It's incredibly unlikely that it could. At least at its stated goals.

...but stands a shockingly good chance of passing...

SOPA is, objectively, an unfeasible trainwreck of a bill, one that willfully misunderstands the nature of the internet and portends huge financial and cultural losses. The White House has come out strongly against it. As have hundreds of venture capitalists and dozens of the men and women who helped build the internet in the first place. In spite of all this, it remains popular in the House of Representatives.

That mark-up period on December 15th, the one that was supposed to transform the bill into something more manageable? Useless. Twenty sanity-fueled amendments were flat-out rejected. And while the bill's most controversial provision—mandatory DNS filtering—was thankfully taken off the table recently, in practice internet providers would almost certainly still use DNS as a tool to shut an accused site down.

...unless we do something about it.

The momentum behind the anti-SOPA movement has been slow to build, but we're finally at a saturation point. Wikipedia, BoingBoing, WordPress, TwitPic: they'll all be dark on January 18th. An anti-SOPA rally has been planned for tomorrow afternoon in New York. The list of companies supporting SOPA is long but shrinking, thanks in no small part to the emails and phone calls they've received in the last few months.

So keep calling. Keep emailing. Most of all, keep making it known that the internet was built on the same principles of freedom that this country was. It should be afforded to the same rights.
[/url]

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Jerkherky
Forum User
Jerkherky is offline 
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 5178
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 08:34 am

ckdelan209 wrote

I have been quite vocal on here trying to raise awareness on the severe violation SOPA/PIPA put on our civil liberties and our current discussions on this very forum.

Simple question before a full explanation of the bill in lamens terms (Thanks to Gizmodo).

If Obama were to sign either bill, I can 100% guarantee he would not receive my vote. With this in mind, and the strong GOP support of the bill, specifically Mittens coming out for it, how can we work towards restoring our civil liberties? The ACLU is being laughed out of serious questions and the only candidates who have any respect for our civil liberties from the GOP side is Paul, formerly Huntsman and 3rd party candidate Johnson.

I am in the IT world, so this serious breach of my civil liberties could seriously alter my everyday life while also being clearly criminal action by our own government against it's own citizens. What is the solution?

If you hadn't heard of SOPA before, you probably have by now: Some of the internet's most influential sites—Reddit and Wikipedia among them—are going dark to protest the much-maligned anti-piracy bill. But other than being a very bad thing, what is SOPA? And what will it mean for you if it passes?

SOPA is an anti-piracy bill working its way through Congress...

House Judiciary Committee Chair and Texas Republican Lamar Smith, along with 12 co-sponsors, introduced the Stop Online Piracy Act on October 26th of last year. Debate on H.R. 3261, as it's formally known, has consisted of one hearing on November 16th and a "mark-up period" on December 15th, which was designed to make the bill more agreeable to both parties. Its counterpart in the Senate is the Protect IP Act (S. 968). Also known by its cuter-but-still-deadly name: PIPA. There will likely be a vote on PIPA next Wednesday; SOPA discussions had been placed on hold but will resume in February of this year.

...that would grant content creators extraordinary power over the internet...

The beating heart of SOPA is the ability of intellectual property owners (read: movie studios and record labels) to effectively pull the plug on foreign sites against whom they have a copyright claim. If Warner Bros., for example, says that a site in Italy is torrenting a copy of The Dark Knight, the studio could demand that Google remove that site from its search results, that PayPal no longer accept payments to or from that site, that ad services pull all ads and finances from it, and—most dangerously—that the site's ISP prevent people from even going there.

...which would go almost comedically unchecked...

Perhaps the most galling thing about SOPA in its original construction is that it let IP owners take these actions without a single court appearance or judicial sign-off. All it required was a single letter claiming a "good faith belief" that the target site has infringed on its content. Once Google or PayPal or whoever received the quarantine notice, they would have five days to either abide or to challenge the claim in court. Rights holders still have the power to request that kind of blockade, but in the most recent version of the bill the five day window has softened, and companies now would need the court's permission.

The language in SOPA implies that it's aimed squarely at foreign offenders; that's why it focuses on cutting off sources of funding and traffic (generally US-based) rather than directly attacking a targeted site (which is outside of US legal jurisdiction) directly. But that's just part of it.

...to the point of potentially creating an "Internet Blacklist"...

Here's the other thing: Payment processors or content providers like Visa or YouTube don't even need a letter shut off a site's resources. The bill's "vigilante" provision gives broad immunity to any provider who proactively shutters sites it considers to be infringers. Which means the MPAA just needs to publicize one list of infringing sites to get those sites blacklisted from the internet.

Potential for abuse is rampant. As Public Knowledge points out, Google could easily take it upon itself to delist every viral video site on the internet with a "good faith belief" that they're hosting copyrighted material. Leaving YouTube as the only major video portal. Comcast (an ISP) owns NBC (a content provider). Think they might have an interest in shuttering some rival domains? Under SOPA, they can do it without even asking for permission.

...while exacting a huge cost from nearly every site you use daily...

SOPA also includes an "anti-circumvention" clause, which holds that telling people how to work around SOPA is nearly as bad as violating its main provisions. In other words: if your status update links to The Pirate Bay, Facebook would be legally obligated to remove it. Ditto tweets, YouTube videos, Tumblr or WordPress posts, or sites indexed by Google. And if Google, Twitter, Wordpress, Facebook, etc. let it stand? They face a government "enjoinment." They could and would be shut down.

The resources it would take to self-police are monumental for established companies, and unattainable for start-ups. SOPA would censor every online social outlet you have, and prevent new ones from emerging.

...and potentially disappearing your entire digital life...

The party line on SOPA is that it only affects seedy off-shore torrent sites. That's false. As the big legal brains at Bricoleur point out, the potential collateral damage is huge. And it's you. Because while Facebook and Twitter have the financial wherewithal to stave off anti-circumvention shut down notices, the smaller sites you use to store your photos, your videos, and your thoughts may not. If the government decides any part of that site infringes on copyright and proves it in court? Poof. Your digital life is gone, and you can't get it back.

...while still managing to be both unnecessary and ineffective...

What's saddest about SOPA is that it's pointless on two fronts. In the US, the MPAA, and RIAA already have the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) to request that infringing material be taken down. We've all seen enough "video removed" messages to know that it works just fine.

As for the foreign operators, you might as well be throwing darts at a tse-tse fly. The poster child of overseas torrenting, Pirate Bay, has made it perfectly clear that they're not frightened in the least. And why should they be? Its proprietors have successfully evaded any technological attempt to shut them down so far. Its advertising partners aren't US-based, so they can't be choked out. But more important than Pirate Bay itself is the idea of Pirate Bay, and the hundreds or thousands of sites like it, as populous and resilient as mushrooms in a marsh. Forget the question of should SOPA succeed. It's incredibly unlikely that it could. At least at its stated goals.

...but stands a shockingly good chance of passing...

SOPA is, objectively, an unfeasible trainwreck of a bill, one that willfully misunderstands the nature of the internet and portends huge financial and cultural losses. The White House has come out strongly against it. As have hundreds of venture capitalists and dozens of the men and women who helped build the internet in the first place. In spite of all this, it remains popular in the House of Representatives.

That mark-up period on December 15th, the one that was supposed to transform the bill into something more manageable? Useless. Twenty sanity-fueled amendments were flat-out rejected. And while the bill's most controversial provision—mandatory DNS filtering—was thankfully taken off the table recently, in practice internet providers would almost certainly still use DNS as a tool to shut an accused site down.

...unless we do something about it.

The momentum behind the anti-SOPA movement has been slow to build, but we're finally at a saturation point. Wikipedia, BoingBoing, WordPress, TwitPic: they'll all be dark on January 18th. An anti-SOPA rally has been planned for tomorrow afternoon in New York. The list of companies supporting SOPA is long but shrinking, thanks in no small part to the emails and phone calls they've received in the last few months.

So keep calling. Keep emailing. Most of all, keep making it known that the internet was built on the same principles of freedom that this country was. It should be afforded to the same rights.
[/url]


Good post. I don't understand the complete lack of interest by most people but we have to keep trying to reach them. The only way to stop this type of legislation is a prolonged campaign by the people against it, because our representatives are only going to serve the interests of those who donate the most, like the MPAA, RIAA, and pharmaceutical companies.

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

ckdelan209
Forum User
ckdelan209 is offline 
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 2560
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 08:35 am
It's amazing how disinterested people are in this bill in particular on a news forum. This forum would cease to exist under the restrictions of SOPA. If a single person posted a link to some blog that had posted a video from a site that was suspect of showing copyright infringed material, the whole chain goes down without the burden of proof having to be proved. Scary stuff.
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Giovinco
Forum User
Giovinco is offline 
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 8598
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 08:47 am
I kinda gave up hope for anything based on logic coming out of our representatives when they passed NDAA with no hesitation at all...

Obama even signed the thing while saying that he disagrees with certain parts.

That's like picking up a turd sandwich and telling yourself "well...the turd is going to be tough to swallow but at least it's on bread"...

_________________

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

ckdelan209
Forum User
ckdelan209 is offline 
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 2560
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 08:57 am

Giovinco wrote

I kinda gave up hope for anything based on logic coming out of our representatives when they passed NDAA with no hesitation at all...

Obama even signed the thing while saying that he disagrees with certain parts.

That's like picking up a turd sandwich and telling yourself "well...the turd is going to be tough to swallow but at least it's on bread"...


Haha, made me laugh on that one.

I can't disagree, but I also don't want to give up on it, if we all throw in the towel then nothing stops them from continueing down this awful path.

I too found it disturbing when Obama came out against NDAA, then signed it with such "hesitance". Then you have the GOP's current crown jewel Mittens, saying that he trusts himself and Obama both to not overstretch the powers granted by NDAA. What a joke, we are turning into China.

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Arative
Forum User
Arative is offline 
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 8870
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 09:23 am
I completely disagree with what SOPA is trying to do. It turns the US into China with censoring the internet. I think with awareness being raised, that it won't pass, at least in its current form.

When you have people writing legislation who don't understand technology, you get bills like SOPA. It would be easy to get around the blocking of websites by changing the DNS servers of your modem or router to something like opendns servers.

Copyright infringement is a civil matter. I'm sick and tired of the entertainment industry turning what should be a civil matter into a governmental criminal matter. The entertainment industry should spend their own money to go after file sharing sites, rather than pay off Congress to pass legislation that censors the internet.

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Arative
Forum User
Arative is offline 
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 8870
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 09:26 am
https://www.google.com/landing/takeaction/

Fill this out to let Congress know what you think

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

ckdelan209
Forum User
ckdelan209 is offline 
Joined: 21 Jan 2011
Posts: 2560
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 09:33 am

Arative wrote

I completely disagree with what SOPA is trying to do. It turns the US into China with censoring the internet. I think with awareness being raised, that it won't pass, at least in its current form.

When you have people writing legislation who don't understand technology, you get bills like SOPA. It would be easy to get around the blocking of websites by changing the DNS servers of your modem or router to something like opendns servers.
Copyright infringement is a civil matter. I'm sick and tired of the entertainment industry turning what should be a civil matter into a governmental criminal matter. The entertainment industry should spend their own money to go after file sharing sites, rather than pay off Congress to pass legislation that censors the internet.


Agreed all around, especially with who is writing the bills. The fact is, our legal system relies on lobbyists to "educate" our elected government officials on how to protect "our" interests.

Hard to turn your back on all those sweet "perks" offered by those lobbyists. I tried to explain the tech impact to my cousin, she is an IP lawyer mainly working on engineering patents. She was befuddled, didn't have a clue what a DNS was, understand routing, etc. The point here is simple, they are writing what they are told to write by people who have heavy handed interest in keeping the internet locked down for monetary gain. Not often I'll pat Google on the back, but the stance they are taking against SOPA is commendable along with some other favs such as Reddit and Wiki.

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Arative
Forum User
Arative is offline 
Joined: 08 Jan 2007
Posts: 8870
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 09:59 am

ckdelan209 wrote

Arative wrote

I completely disagree with what SOPA is trying to do. It turns the US into China with censoring the internet. I think with awareness being raised, that it won't pass, at least in its current form.

When you have people writing legislation who don't understand technology, you get bills like SOPA. It would be easy to get around the blocking of websites by changing the DNS servers of your modem or router to something like opendns servers.
Copyright infringement is a civil matter. I'm sick and tired of the entertainment industry turning what should be a civil matter into a governmental criminal matter. The entertainment industry should spend their own money to go after file sharing sites, rather than pay off Congress to pass legislation that censors the internet.


Agreed all around, especially with who is writing the bills. The fact is, our legal system relies on lobbyists to "educate" our elected government officials on how to protect "our" interests.

Hard to turn your back on all those sweet "perks" offered by those lobbyists. I tried to explain the tech impact to my cousin, she is an IP lawyer mainly working on engineering patents. She was befuddled, didn't have a clue what a DNS was, understand routing, etc. The point here is simple, they are writing what they are told to write by people who have heavy handed interest in keeping the internet locked down for monetary gain. Not often I'll pat Google on the back, but the stance they are taking against SOPA is commendable along with some other favs such as Reddit and Wiki.


Google does stand to lose a lot. This bill could shut down youtube with no recourse from Google. Its a badly written bill all around.

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Ranger1
Forum User
Ranger1 is offline 
Joined: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 22821
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 10:20 am

ckdelan209 wrote

It's amazing how disinterested people are in this bill in particular on a news forum. This forum would cease to exist under the restrictions of SOPA. If a single person posted a link to some blog that had posted a video from a site that was suspect of showing copyright infringed material, the whole chain goes down without the burden of proof having to be proved. Scary stuff.


No it isn't, not for me. I've been observing this dumbing down of the American public play for the past several decades, pushing them away from political involvement to 'more important' things like the next Survivor or Dancing with the Stars or who's going to win the Super Bowl/World Series/ Stanley Cup. The media has played a major role in the dumbing down of the American public.

_________________
"There are two ways to conquer and enslave a nation. One is by sword. The other is by debt." -- John Adams
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

DeweyCheatem-n-Howe
Forum User
DeweyCheatem-n-Howe is online now 
Joined: 02 Jan 2006
Posts: 4442
Location: Norwood, MA
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 10:29 am
As a Reddit addict and general Internet junkie, I've been following SOPA pretty closely for a while now. Part of me appears disinterested because I keep thinking "C'mon, there's no way something this blatantly stupid can ever pass." Self-delusion, I think, may be driving a lot of what appears to be apathy over the bill.

That said, I've signed numerous petitions and emailed my Congresscritter here in MA voicing my extreme opposition to SOPA. I just don't know if it matters. Every time we make our voices heard by voting out the schmucks who displease us, our only viable choices for replacing them are schmucks who haven't displeased us quite yet.

Lewis Black said it best: "I feel that our two-party system is a bowl of s*** looking in the mirror at itself."

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

WildBill
Forum User
WildBill is offline 
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
Posts: 599
Post subject: Re: If SOPA/PIPA pass?
Posted: 18 Jan 2012 11:23 am
I actually talked to my Congressman's COS (Peter Roskam) and she told me that he will be voting against it. They feel SOPA will not pass in the House.

Anyway, that's my tidbit for today.

View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote

Print Email

All times are CST (CST6CDT)
Post new topic Reply to topic
Previous Topic Next Topic
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

most popular

log in now

Member ID or Email address:
Password:
Remember me on this computer

forum tools

recent forum posts

buy tickets