TOWER GROVE — As many as seven of the St. Louis Cardinals better prospects must be added to the 40-man roster in the near future or the team will risk losing them through the Rule 5 draft in December. The process of clearing space on the 40-man roster has already begun.
Jarrett Hoffpauir, a Class AAA second baseman, was picked up off waivers late last night by the Toronto Blue Jays. (See the Toronto take on the Jays’ official web site here.) Hoffpauir, 26, played in eight games for the Cardinals’ last season and hit .250 with a couple key RBIs against Cincinnati. At Triple-A Memphis, Hoffpauir hit .291 with 14 home runs and 53 RBIs. The emergence of Daniel Descalso at the same position altered the Cardinals’ depth chart at second base and made it possible to float Hoffpauir through waivers and possibly off the 40-man roster.
Earlier, players like infielder Brian Barden, were set loose into free agency to clear another spot.
The spots on the 40-man roster could be a premium, especially a year after the Cardinals elected not to place reliever Luis Perdomo on the 40-man and lost him, for good, in the Rule 5 draft. The righthander started the year with San Francisco, but spent most of the regular season in San Diego’s bullpen.
Players who must be placed on the 40-man roster to avoid being eligible for the Rule 5 draft are those who are three or four years removed from signing their first pro contract. The date depends on if the player can out of college, out of high school or were undrafted free agents, and it is based on age. The rule was changed in the last round of collective bargaining to increase the years to four (19 & older) and five (18 & under).
Some of the noteworthy players who the Cardinals must consider for the 40-man roster are:
- Bryan Anderson, the Class AAA catcher, lefthanded-hitter and .300 batter.
- Allen Craig, the organization’s newly-crowned Player of the Year.
- Mark Hamilton, a first baseman who is learning the outfield in hopes of improving his stock and adding a position to what’s been a consistently productive power bat.
- Jon Jay, the high-average outfielder who did well in 2008’s major-league spring training.
- Daryl Jones, the 2008 Player of the Year, who is out in Arizona and is a highly regarded prospect.
- Francisco Samuel, power-armed reliever who has one of the fastest fastballs in system.
- Trey Hearne, control pitcher who had success in Class AA.
- Mark McCormick, power-armed riddle who has had difficulty staying healthy, staying consistent.
- Tyler Norrick, a lefty who moved to the bullpen and had 78 Ks in 59 ip for Class AA.
For more information about many of these players, check out the ongoing Bird Land Community Top 21.
Players who are added to the 40-man roster are eligible for promotions to the major leagues, but they also must be optioned out of spring training — which starts the clock on their option years. If a player is taken in the Rule 5 draft that player must stay on the selecting team’s 25-man roster or be offered to the 28 other teams before then returning to the original team.
The Rule 5 draft is Dec. 10, and the roster must be finalized earlier that week.
The Cardinals will have other spots on the 40-man roster coming open as players — like Rick Ankiel, Troy Glaus, Khalil Greene, Matt Holliday and others — file for free agency.
With Toronto claiming Hoffpauir, the Cardinals have 38 players on the roster. That number was reduced by three more with moves made this morning that included releasing Brad Thompson.
That includes the players positioned to be free agents and players such as Joe Mather, Nick Stavinoha and Joe Thurston who have to have their contracts renewed.
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I suspect that the cardinals would trade Joe Thurston for Rollins or Ryan Howard if the Phillies were willing. But letting him go is about the right value weight. I doubt the cardinals’ various owners have made any player decisions based on race since the days of frank lane, if then.
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Posted: Mather is seriously overrated by many fans, IMO. He didn’t do much to impress me in his time in the bigs, and lest we forget, he was awful last spring, and that is why he got shipped down, then continued to struggle at Memphis until his injury.
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I was of the opinion that Mather was struggling in spring training due to injury. Am I wrong?
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“Players who must be placed on the 40-man roster to avoid being eligible for the Rule 5 draft are those who are three or four years removed from signing their first pro contract”
DG – when MLB changed the rules on the draft & follow part of the MLB Draft last year, they also changed the rules on who is eligible to be selected in the Rule V draft. The requirements went from 3 or 4 years to 4 or 5 years respectively. I also seem to remember that the age requirement (18 Y/O) went from when they signed their first pro contract to their age when drafted.
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Also, I’m not saying we should cut him, but Mather is seriously overrated by many fans, IMO. He didn’t do much to impress me in his time in the bigs, and lest we forget, he was awful last spring, and that is why he got shipped down, then continued to struggle at Memphis until his injury.
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The Cards must protect Jones, Anderson, Jay, Craig and Samuel at the very least. Probably Hamilton as well. Any of those are pretty much guaranteed to be lost in Rule 5 if not. As for Hearne, McCormick and Norrick, I am not sure any team would be able to hold them in the Majors for the full year even if they did draft them. Even if we did lose one of them, I think we would move on just fine. Pedromo not being protected last year for Scherer I said was a mistake at the time, and unfortunately I was proven right, although I thought we would get him back when the Giants put him on waivers after last spring. Either way, many of the lesser teams would be more than happy to keep any of the first 5 I mentioned on their roster, even if they aren’t very productive, in order to be able to have them for the future. Not sure Hamilton would stick if drafted, but he has a better shot than the last three, IMO.
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Mike, I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comment. It would be hypocritical of me if I did not support a program like RBI, so I will. It’s not a simple problem, but three of the “final four” teams in the playoffs (Phillies, Dodgers, Angels) have a significant number of African-American players, so they’re finding quality with diversity. As I said, I just don’t know about the Cardinals; it’s food for thought.
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Civitas,
Baseball is still a business! Equal opportunity means having an “opportunity” – not a Right to play the game. If a man can play or coach to expected abilities, it doesn’t matter what color one is. You simply take the best person possible. It doesn’t matter if you are, black, white, yellow, brown or green. Get the job done and you stay.
There still are people of color on this team: Albert Pujols, Yadier Molina, Julio Lugo, Jaime Garcia. Pretty good ball players, to say the least.
If you are concerned about race being an issue in basbeall, I suggest you start making donations to “RBI” to ensure Americans of black ethnicity get an opportunity to play the Great Game.
That’s the problem here. It’s not Cardinals organization. It’s all across baseball! There aren’t enough black Americans in the game and RBI does what it can to introduce youth to the game. Thank God it’s produced great players like Jimmy Rollins. I pray it’s a start to enhance our National past time.
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They should just forget about Joe Thurston all-together.
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civitas what are you talking about? brock, flood, gibson, white, smith and mcgee retired long ago. please dont compare their accomplishments to hal mcrae and joe thurston, that is a complete disservice. i know the only thing you are trying to do is stir controversy, but at least have a valid point.
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Has anyone else noticed that by releasing Hal McRae and Joe Thurston there are no more African-Americans on the Cardinal roster or bench? This on a team with the legacies of Lou Brock, Curt Flood, Bob Gibson, Bill White, Ozzie Smith, Willie McGee. Is this intentional? I don’t know, but I feel as if a large part of the Cardinal identity for the past 50 years has been removed.
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Retain Thurston you have to be kidding…..he can’t hit…he can’t field and how about his great baserunning skills………..I’m 66 years old and I could run for him…..I might not be as fast but I would never get picked off ,like he has 20 or 30 times this year, kind of reminds me of skates (lonnie smith)
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I suppose any players the Cards go after will be a well kept secret, but that list, or the actual players themselves that the organization scoops up will be very interesting. That (those) players would have to stay on the 25 man roster, true? The positions that they play would tell us a fair amount about which free agents the Cards believe they can hold – and not hold.
Is that how it works?
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interesting moves… I wasnt really expecting to see Thompson get released, but then again the Cards never have seen him as more than a long reliever… and that is one spot that is expendable in the bullpen. If there is one thing that can be certain is that the new guys being added to the 40 man over the next few weeks will give the Cards some interesting callups at times over the next season…
or even if one or two of them crack the team in the beginning of the season. Like Allen Craig… may not be an every day player, but he is a younger version of Joe Mather and has the power of a David Freese.
Goodluck to Jarrett Hoffpauir.. he was always an oxymoron to me.. someone who could hit, but never got the crack.. and now with Schumacer and the emergence of Descalso it opened up the possibility to see if he would get picked up. He will be a good back up infielder for the Blue Jays next year.
Thurston was a gritty player, but being outrighted will be a good move… means his days on the club are over unless there is a rash of injuries, but even I think Tony realizes this team needs to get younger at some positions and a player about to turn thirty who is a bit player is not going to do the team much good.
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“Knowing LaRussa, Thurston will probably be kept on the 40 man roster. It is great that the Cardinals do have players quickly snapped up by other organizations. To bad one or two was not traded for someone like, say, Roy Halladay.”
Except that Thompson has already been released. Also … it would have taken a whole heck of a lot more than the likes of Brad Thompson or any other candidate to be released from the 40-man to fetch Halladay (to say nothing of the money he is owed).
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I hope Hoffpauir does well with Toronto. His stay at the Majors this year was attended by some very big hits at very important times.
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When will little dunc’ be added to the roster? According to Bernie, Toni has now gained complete control of the organization, and would love to have an “impact” bat, and hero(Toni’s description)on the team.
Last manager/coach in St. Louis to have this level of power was Mike Keenan. We all know how that ended.
Prediction for 2010…(88) wins, Smoltz is signed, the hiting coach doesn’t finish the season, and Albert has a down year(for Albert).
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Ya what stubby said,…cuz Thurstons mothers brothers uncle twice removed batted .320 in the Oregon stickball league and taught him to grind through the season which made him a asset according to statistical data used by top scientist within the Cardinal organization to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt his worth to the team and his ability to matchup with righthanded pitchers.
Other then that I can see no reason to release Thurston.
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K-N-M: You mean like how TLR ruined Waino, Schu, and B.Ryan?
Tony likes Thurston because he’s a LH bat off the bench that can play 2B-3B-LF, always grinds out AB’s, and will play in any role withou complaining.
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Looking at the 40-man right now, which is at 36 players: Joel Pineiro & Todd Wellemeyer won’t return, Matt Pagnozzi shouldn’t be there to begin with, Troy Glaus & Khalil Greene won’t return, Rick Ankiel & Matt Holliday won’t return, Shane Robinson is a question mark & a decision must be made on Nick Stavinoha.
From the list above, that is 6 more spots open by free agency which assumes Mark DeRosa & john Smoltz returning, plus 3 minor-leaguers that could be removed for other options. Leaving 27 IF you remove them.
From DGs list of possible Rule 5 casualties: Protect Daryl Jones, Bryan Anderson, Jon Jay, Allan Craig, Francisco Samuel, Trey Hearne, & Tyler Norrick. That is 7 of 13 openings. Do what you wish with the other 6 spots, including add potential free agents, leaving Robinson &/or Stavinoha on the list, or adding from DGs list.
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I am still trying to figure out how Joe Thurston managed to stay on the team all year. I think he either has pictures of Tony LaRussa eating a cheeseburger or beating an animal. He cant hit and he led the team in errors as a defensive “specialist”. I hope I never have to hear his name again.
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Thompson has that Miles feel about it,…sad to see him go but complaining about it is like D. Goold trying to get a pay raise. Thompson should land a good gig, he just didn’t get used enough here and probably got alittle lazy and with a regular job he could do ok.
I’d like to see Mather get another shot, trouble is, at what position. The entire position player portion of the roster is going to be dictated on Holliday being signed. IMO
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Yes, I think a club would put a Rule 5 on a left handed hitting catcher who bats for solid average and will turn only 23 in December. Heck, most teams with an everyday catcher could get away with having Anderson as a backup to develop into a starter.
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Uh, we are keeping Smelly on the 40 man roster?? For what, BP for the rest of the league?? Sometimes I think Dunc is a genius, then sometimes I think he is just looking for credit for restorations. It is hard for me to imagine that he would need to be protected in lieu of Thompson.
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McCormack – you’re joking, right?
On a more serious note, do you really think a team would claim Anderson?
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World-Record Jim, Yes. Cash.
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4 years for a HS player after being drafted seems kind of short. Is there any compensation at all for players lost?
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P.S. Greyshark,
If you are one of my bosses officially suggesting some time off that would be swell. Send me an email and I’ll gladly take you up on that.
Otherwise, the beat goes on.
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Was putting up the news on the other moves in Cardinal Beat, as y’all were commenting. Thought it would be good to preview the moves here, but they went final much quicker than I expected.
Thanks for putting that stuff up here as well. I’ve updated the info above and you can see the news — Thompson released — C-Beat.
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As for the question about the Rule 5 draft. It’s rather impossible to know who the Cardinals will take until we see who all the teams are protecting.
dg
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If I felt the way you seem to feel, Greyshark, I would not even have bothered reading this article. Go read about your two real teams.
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And if the Cardinals have tough choices to make, other teams have tough choices as well. That might argue to leave a spot open on our 40-man roster to scoop up someone of interest being floated by another team. If we are to believe that the organization has a competitive advantage in player development as a result of investments made the last few years, then, presumably, a natural byproduct would be an insight into the potential talent available from other teams’ systems.
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Hello….hello, the season is over, take some time off and watch two real teams tonight, you’ll have plenty of time next year to rave about Laru, the Genius’team fizzle out in the end, Oh but wait, what is that coming out of the Western sky, a bird, a plane, no it is The Big Mac Man coming back to STL to save the day. NOT
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Per the Cards website their roster now stands at 36 (released Thurston and Thompson) and that includes free agents Glaus, Greene, Piniero, Derosa, Holliday, Smoltz and Ankiel as well as some players that could be vulnerable like Wellemeyer, Stavinoha and Josh Kinney. There is no chance that Glaus, Greene and Ankiel or even Wellemeyer will be offered arbitration so I think they could be taken off the roster prior to 12/10, is that correct?
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DG – you say the Cards have 38 on the 40-man. The team’s site has 36. Who are the other two that they’re missing? (Thurston appears to be one.)
http://stlouis.cardinals.mlb.com/team/roster_40man.jsp?c_id=stl
From the list above, I figure the top 6 must be protected, and the club can take its chances with the rest.
So that’d mean opening 4 spots (if 38 is the number.)
Pineiro, Wellemeyer, Ankiel, K Greene. Easy enough!
Chop off Glaus and you get another spot, and Thurson and Stavinoha are expendable, if needed.
Also, any point in protecting Pags if the Cards add Anderson to the 40?
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Looks like the roster moves have already started:
11/03/09 St. Louis Cardinals outrighted Matthew Scherer to Memphis
11/03/09 St. Louis Cardinals outrighted Joe Thurston to Memphis
11/03/09 St. Louis Cardinals released RHP Brad Thompson.
11/03/09 Toronto Blue Jays claim Jarrett Hoffpauir off waivers
I would add Wellemeyer and Piniero to the list of open roster spots as well.
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LaRussa will ruin the career of each and every player on that list as long as he is here.
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Tough decisions ahead! Like the others have said, why not let Nick the Stick and Thurston go and if they get claimed, good luck to them! The jury is still out on Mather, IMO–injury prone, didn’t light it up in 2008–but I wonder if you don’t protect Anderson if no one will claim him because of all of the injuries. That might be worth a gamble, too.
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DG – any clues at all on who the Cards may be looking to draft in the rule 5? anyone? Does every team have a chance to make those kind of selections? How does that work?
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one or two for Roy Halladay? Rahb, if you can make that deal the Cards should make you the GM. It’s more like 3 or 4 of the guys mentioned and Wainwright. No thank you.
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What ever happened to Joe Mather? Haven’t heard much about him since the wrist issue. Weren’t they pretty high on him?
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Right now the only player of the three the Cards should keep is Joe Mather. Injuries slowed him down this year, but he’s a much better choice than Stavinoha and Thurston. Just because Thurston bats left handed Tony thinks that he has a bat off the bench to counter pitching changes. I’m 60 years old and I could strike out just like Thurston does even batting left handed.
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Knowing LaRussa, Thurston will probably be kept on the 40 man roster. It is great that the Cardinals do have players quickly snapped up by other organizations. To bad one or two was not traded for someone like, say, Roy Halladay.
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